Episode 41 - Understanding Construction Loans and Real Estate Financing with Israel Lopez
In this episode, Stephen Husted sits down with Israel Lopez, a seasoned real estate lender and investor, to dive deep into the world of creative financing, hard money loans, and real estate development. Israel shares his journey from being a contractor to becoming a loan officer, helping investors secure the right funding to maximize their profits. He reveals insider tips on structuring deals, avoiding costly mistakes, and why the right financing strategy can make or break an investment.
Stephen and Israel talked about:
00:00 – Highlight
09:08 – Choosing the Right Project Management Software for Real Estate
10:57 – How to Keep Track of Multiple Real Estate Projects Efficiently
24:07 – Israel’s Journey from Contractor to Real Estate Loan Officer
26:48 – The Importance of Building a Strong Real Estate Team
34:26 – Creative Financing Strategies That Save Investors Thousands
38:36 – The Secret to Successful Real Estate Investing: Figuring It Out as You Go
49:03 – How ADU Regulations Are Changing the Game in Seattle
57:44 – Why Financing in California vs. Seattle Is Completely Different
01:00:32 – The Importance of Having Multiple Streams of Income in Real Estate
TRANSCRIPT
∎ Teaser / Highlighted Clip
[Stephen Husted] (0:00 - 0:05)
I kind of got into the Seattle market. It's less than a year.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (0:06 - 0:08)
And you guys are already up and running with more than just one project.
[Stephen Husted] (0:09 - 0:16)
We bought three houses, three rehabs, three basements, four daddies. Wow
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (0:17 - 0:55)
You have to travel. That's non-negotiable, right? We worked so hard.
You have to take the breaks and because we, people say, well, I want to travel when I retire. I'm like, no, you want to travel now. You're still full of life and enjoy the journey.
Don't just put it all off because who knows? There may not be a tomorrow. And it's the journey at the end of the day that you're, I would say showcasing.
You don't have to be the expert at everything, every single step. I think people really want the stories, the journey, but the journey is definitely, the gold is in the details. And if you show the journey, you'll be inspiring a lot of people to take action because there's a lot of people with money that are not taking action.
∎ Podcast Intro:
[Stephen Husted] (0:55 - 2:57)
Brace yourself for a wild ride into the unexpected. This ain't your typical success show. I'm here talking to real folks who've been through it all, skipping the fancy business talk for authentic stories.
We're diving into childhood dreams, teenage escapades and everything in between. No scripts, just the stories that truly mold success. Each episode takes you on a journey through those breakthrough moments that paved their way.
No fluff, just genuine stories. So whether you're chasing dreams or just love a good story, buckle up for wisdom, laughs, and the unexpected. This is The Breakthrough Podcast, where success is a journey, not just some fancy destination.
Don't miss out. Hit the subscribe button now and join our breakthrough crew. I got some incredible stories to share and you won't want to miss a single one.
∎ Guest Introduction:
Hey everyone. I'm excited to bring on a fantastic guest, my buddy, Israel Lopez. He's a loan officer, real estate investor, and someone who's been instrumental in helping me tackle some of my major projects in the Seattle market and beyond.
We met through a mutual connection and Israel's expertise in everything from ADU developments to creative financing has been a game changer for me. He's got this amazing ability to think strategically and solve problems, which has made him a go-to resource for the investors in the area. In this episode, Israel opens up about his journey from growing up in a family business to navigating the world of real estate lending.
He shares his approach to structuring deals that reduce risk while boosting returns and even gives us a glimpse into the exciting opportunities coming to the Seattle market. This one's full of golden nuggets, practical tips, and a little humor to sprinkle in. I know you're going to take a ton away from it, so let's jump right in.
∎ Podcast Proper:
All right, buddy. How are you?
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (2:57 - 2:59)
Good. Good. Show's live.
Let's make it happen.
[Stephen Husted] (3:00 - 3:37)
Let's do it. I was thinking of something. I was just going to the bathroom before we get going here because it's one of the things I go through every time I do an episode is I drink so much water because I go on a run usually in the morning and I'm, you know, I usually drink water.
And so then all of a sudden, about 45 minutes in to 50 minutes in, I'm like, Oh, I can't go to the bathroom. I'm going to try to finish that last 10 minutes of, of the podcast. So yeah.
Yeah. So to start off, this is interesting and this wasn't planned, but we're closing today.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (3:38 - 3:42)
We are. We are literally in the next couple of hours, we'll have recording numbers.
[Stephen Husted] (3:43 - 4:54)
Yeah. That's yeah. That's awesome.
I was talking to Roman yesterday because we have a new partner on that Feeney project. And she's the designer, you know, she's the designer that helped me with Glenn Una, and now we've become friends and we're doing a new project that we're starting in San Jose we started a couple of weeks ago and we're basically taking over Roman's job when it comes to picking out floors, tiles, cabinets. Like I'm, we're, we just, we're like, Hey, you just give us our budget, you know, per the scope itemized and we'll take care of ordering everything.
We'll have it, you know, ready for you to go pick up, you pay for it so that we can still get it through the construction draw money, but he's like, dude, no problem. Like if you want to take on all that and make my job easier, so I don't have to pick out stuff for clients like have at it. So that's how we're going to run this one.
But then I told them, I go, it has even been a year. So I kind of got into the Seattle market. It's less than a year.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (4:55 - 4:58)
And you guys are already up and running with more than just one project.
[Stephen Husted] (4:58 - 6:19)
We bought three houses, three rehabs, three basements, four daddies. Wow. I told him, are we getting out of hand here?
He's like, you're in it now, man. There's no second guessing at this point. Like, and it's funny, you know, because Michael, he got confused.
We have a sign off today for one 17th for the condo docks, right. Are putting the LLC, putting the daddo into the LLC, something like that. Right.
And so escrow was asking like, Hey, I haven't heard from Michael. Michael's like, Hey, no, I got a sign off at 2 PM or 9 PM on Tuesday. And I'm like, how's that even possible?
Dude, we're closing that day. That sounds odd. He got confused with the other properties.
Like, dude, I'm getting like, there's so many emails coming through because right now, what we're going through is we have three projects. That means there's multiple surveys, multiple arborists. There's everything's in threes, three condo attorney stuff, you know?
No, actually more than that. It's, you've got all the condo within the, on the lot. So we're just getting things going.
Like it's just stacking on top, you know, even with an assistant.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (6:19 - 7:31)
It's at some point you might have to switch over to a project management software so you can keep track of everything. So what do you know about that? Like what type of project management software?
Everybody asks, right? Like what's the best CRM? What's the best project management software?
And it's honestly, there's no right answer. It's more, what are you already working and what will keep you organized so you don't miss certain steps. I can tell you the most successful builders that I know have superintendents that follow a checklist, right?
And that's what the project management software is. And then it's funny enough that you were talking about the designer because the best product that I see coming from the superintendents or from these builders are guys that are using designers because let's face it, like the construction world is heavily male based, right? So when it comes to picking out finishes for what it's worth, we would just go in there and paint everything white, but that's not the best product.
So that's where, what differentiates, I would say different builders at different phases and I would say maturity as far as their business goes. Asana is one of the prominent ones that I hear about. Monday as well.
Those are kind of the two that I hear about the most. Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (7:31 - 9:10)
We use Asana, God, it seems like, and we're always trying to, I mean, that's one thing when you get into investing or you're just going as an entrepreneur type of business is how do you put systems and processes in place over time? Like for example, on these projects, we have one assistant dedicated to Seattle. And we're putting together these build out lists of the soft costs.
Like, okay, let's run through one whole project. Here's how much we spent, because then we're going to know exactly point A to B on the, on the next one. And it's going to be okay.
We, yeah, we know we're going to have to pay the arborist and we know we're going to have to pay the condo attorney. We know we're gonna have to pay someone to decommission the oil tank, you know, like here's the checklist. So right now we're in the middle of building those out.
Like we're just working through there, but. And it's interesting because Michael, he's a W2, so he's deep in tech. So he's getting bombarded by so many emails.
And so now I've even had Raina go, Hey, at the end of the week, you need to give him the key points of the week. Like what went on, what to expect the following week, what things we have to look out for. Keep him and keep it very short and simple.
Don't write paragraphs of stuff, like very bullet pointed. This is getting done. You got this and that's not only going into like WhatsApp.
It's also going into his calendar, you know, like the calendar is even built out for like draws, you know, like, Hey, this is when the money's going to come out. Like you just got to keep this so that you can, you know, move from, you know, one bank to the next. So it's a lot of moving parts for sure.
Yeah.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (9:11 - 9:41)
I think once you realize who's wearing what hat, then just let each person run within their own lane. You just check it at the end of the week as far as like what is left to do, et cetera, and then sometimes that individual may have their own assistant as well, right? But if you guys are, have one main assistant that'll keep you guys accountable for your Seattle civic projects, I think that's also key because while there's a bunch of emails coming in and you have a W-2 or you have other projects in like California, for example, it can get overwhelming.
[Stephen Husted] (9:42 - 10:30)
Yeah, it definitely. And even Michael says that, like I give him updates and he's like, are you okay? I'm like, well, I'm used to it because I've managed portfolios or properties out of state for a while now.
So to me, it's just like, I'll play a little like analogy here. I used to be a waiter when I was growing up and you might be super busy, right, and you might have 10 tables, but you treat all those 10 tables as one, you know, you work in a system. So I do the same thing with real estate, you know, like there might be a lot of properties in there, but I just run through a very systemized approach of what's going on within these portfolios on a weekly basis.
And then, you know, you got to make your adjustments where you need to and follow through on things. But that takes time to get to that point. Yeah.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (10:30 - 10:31)
Yeah, it definitely does.
[Stephen Husted] (10:31 - 10:42)
I feel like you're putting out fires all the time. So the last time I saw you, we were at, at Ann's thing. Did you tell me you were going on vacation or you were going somewhere?
I forgot.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (10:43 - 10:50)
I'm going on vacation for Thanksgiving week, going to Paris and Barcelona. So that'll be exciting. Ooh.
[Stephen Husted] (10:50 - 10:51)
Have you ever been?
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (10:51 - 10:55)
No, I hear you've been to Barcelona before and have some great stories.
[Stephen Husted] (10:58 - 11:00)
Did I tell you that when I saw you at Ann's?
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (11:00 - 11:01)
Yeah, you did.
[Stephen Husted] (11:02 - 11:15)
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
But you're staying only in Barcelona? So three to four days in each, so Paris and Barcelona. Cool.
Yeah. You're going to have a good time. Do you know what the weather's like at that point?
It's winter.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (11:16 - 11:19)
Oh yeah. It's cold. It'll be probably fifties, most likely.
[Stephen Husted] (11:19 - 11:20)
Yeah.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (11:20 - 11:20)
Fifty six.
[Stephen Husted] (11:20 - 11:22)
But not as many tourists.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (11:22 - 11:30)
Yeah, absolutely. Not as many tourists because it's cold. Summer just ended, but you just got back from Costa Rica.
How was that?
[Stephen Husted] (11:30 - 13:30)
I really like Costa Rica. Easy flight there. The thing about Costa Rica is you need to, it's hard to do it all.
It's too spread out. So you have to choose like, what do I want to do on this particular trip? Do I want to be by the coast or do I want to be in the rainforest?
And you kind of have to figure out that type of direction. We've gone twice now. The first time we flew into San Jose and we kind of traveled South down to like little cities.
And stayed at a couple of them, you know, two days per city. And then we ended up at a really cool off the grid tree house, which was like the highlight of the trip. And then we jumped on like a smaller plane and flew back up to San Jose.
And then flew home. I really like it's jungly, tropical, feel safe, really good food, very similar climate to like Hawaii in its sense, like Kauai, you know, it rains, it could rain and also be sunny again, super friendly people, the resorts so far that we've stayed out are been pretty amazing. This trip was in the rainforest.
And basically it was more of like, we just, we went on a hikes. It was this hiking, hiking, hiking every single day. Like at the end, I think the last day we hiked two different parks and it was pouring rain.
I'd even have a rain, I did have a raincoat. I just didn't bring it because it's super hot, but you know, we'd go through trekking through and it'd be super soaked in rain and, you know, beautiful waterfalls and this one is by a volcano and the water is kind of got this like teal blue color to it with hot springs. Yeah.
Really cool. Yeah. It was really awesome.
The food is amazing. I love the food. Great coffee.
They have a pink pineapples down there. I think, did you know that? No, you know, that's funny.
You bring that up. I heard someone talking about that and I wasn't catching on to what they were saying. No, they grow, I didn't try any.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (13:31 - 13:47)
Dole grows pink pineapples or they might buy them from the local farmers, but they, Costa Rica is one of the countries that has pink pineapples. I know that because I actually bought one at the store if you're in Seattle and it said imported from Costa Rica. Yeah.
And I bought it. It was an expensive pineapple, but I was like, it's pink. Why not?
[Stephen Husted] (13:48 - 14:25)
Yeah, that's cool. Well, you know, something I've learned this last trip, I kept seeing the word soda on these restaurants, like soda, soda, soda, and that, and basically what that means it's a family owned restaurant and that's where you get the real authentic vibe of Costa Rican food and it made sense because every time we went to Google maps to like look at restaurants, all the ones that said soda had like a ton of reviews, you know, like, Oh, this is the best authentic food. So that was kind of a cool little thing.
And, and my wife loves sloths, the little animal sloths.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (14:25 - 14:25)
Yeah. Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (14:26 - 15:50)
And they're so cute. They just sit around the tree with this like smile and they don't do much of anything, but we went to the sloth sanctuary and saw them there. But our first trip we were in Manuel and Antonio and we got a little canoe and we went to this little Island and there was sloths just in the tree right at the beach, eating flowers, we're taking videos.
And we didn't really realize that that's very rare because they sit not at the very top of a tree, but kind of in the middle. And the reason they sit in the middle is one, they don't want to be too high up for predators and they didn't want to be too low for predators as well. So they ride in the middle of the tree.
They come down just once in a while to go to the bathroom. Their metabolism is really slow because they only eat like leaves. That's it.
So yeah, kind of a crazy, crazy animal. They just, just sit up in the tree with a smile, living their best life, right? Living their best life.
And their babies, when their baby's born, literally the baby's born and the baby just latches on to the mom with these hooks, you know, and just sits there and they go, you know, in different angles and the little baby just hangs on. It's crazy. So yeah, good trip.
It was a little short, but sometimes we do that. We just get out of town, but it definitely, traveling's good. Oh yeah.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (15:51 - 16:10)
You got to travel. You have to travel. That's non-negotiable, right?
We worked so hard. You have to take the breaks and because we, people say, well, I want to travel when I retire. I'm like, no, you want to travel now.
You're still full of life and enjoy the journey. Don't just put it all off because who knows? There may not be a tomorrow.
So you got to make sure you enjoy every single day.
[Stephen Husted] (16:11 - 17:05)
I agree with you. That is absolutely the truth. You know, I think when I was there, you know, Finney was coming to the close, right?
Glenuna project is coming to a close. One of our Kansas city thing properties is, you know, across the finish line and it doesn't need, I don't need a lot, but I went in the hot tub at where we stayed and it was 10 minutes. Maybe I was in there, maybe 15, but 10 to 15 minutes of just reflection for me is a long time and it was just good.
Like, okay, cool. Like we just, we got through a lot and I don't know about you in 2023, but 2023 was fucking hard. It was fucking hard.
Yep. It was a tough year, period. So, but none of us took off, took the breaks off and we just kept doing our best.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (17:05 - 17:06)
You know what I mean?
[Stephen Husted] (17:07 - 17:18)
Keep moving forward. And so, you know, and everything that's gone on in, in Seattle, it's just good. It was like that final, it was like a good moment of reflection, I guess is what I'm trying to get at, which was cool.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (17:18 - 20:16)
And putting out fires from the beach is a lot more fun than putting them out from your office. So that's true. That's true.
Hey, where'd you grow up? Are you born and raised in Washington? Yeah.
Born and raised in Washington. My grandfather immigrated from Mexico. Jeez.
I don't remember when, like early seventies, I think. He actually landed in Los Angeles. He's always been an entrepreneur.
That's where I would say we got our entrepreneur side from. Eventually migrated to Seattle, opened up a chain of Hispanic stores, grocery stores, and would sell boots to the local Hispanics up here in Seattle. Him and his brother actually opened up a franchise of Mexican grocery stores.
And there was a third one that they opened up in Marysville, which is about an hour North of Seattle. He actually gifted that store to my mother and that store was as old as I was right before I went to college and she sold it off, but my entire childhood was non-existent because it was consumed by this Mexican grocery store. That's where I live.
That's where I grew up. I did my homework there and then went back to work and then did it all over again the next day. Basically it was, you wake up, go to school, come back to the business, work until nine, 10, go home, and then you do it all over again.
So that's where I learned a lot of my early negotiation skills and just how to problem solve. A lot of individuals that came through the door, who knows what they needed? Sometimes it was something as simple as, Hey, I have these documents that I need help translating.
And what did my mom say? Hey, this guy knows how to speak English, read and write. Go, go translate it.
So she was like, Hey, go help out my friend. I'm like, you better be charging for this. But at the time when we're in the thick of it, I was like, Oh, this is brutal.
Lost my entire childhood being here. And I wanted nothing to do with entrepreneurship. But then now in hindsight, I wouldn't want it any other way because if it wasn't because of that, my work ethic probably would not be the same way.
Probably wouldn't know how to speak Spanish as a result. I was doing business in Spanish. I knew I learned how to read and write as a result of the business.
And my younger siblings today, they're not as fluent as, as my two younger, basically the two that come after me, pretty fluent. They can't, they know how to read and write in Spanish, but the, the younger two are definitely don't, they don't know how to read and write in Spanish, so they can't negotiate. I have countless times where clients call me for a loan in Spanish.
You have to be very careful about like doing financial things in Spanish, but it definitely helps to, to be able to resonate with individuals and speak the language, not only that, but going to Mexico, it's a lot different when you know how to speak Spanish. They will still notice that you're not local, but it definitely, when you know how to speak the language, it helps just being respectful, like, like anything else. It's, it's a game changer, I would say.
[Stephen Husted] (20:17 - 20:46)
So you've learned a lot of your skillset from working at that grocery store. And that's, that's a given. That's kind of like Gary Vee's story somewhat.
He looked at his dad, I think liquor store or something like that. Yeah. From what I remember.
And he kind of took over part of it and started helping him get it online and put a lot of time in basically through his childhood. So it's interesting that it kind of translates into what you do now. So besides you're a loan officer, right?
But then you're also an investor on top of that.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (20:46 - 22:49)
Yeah. I was actually a builder and contractor for a lot of the local Seattle investors six years ago. We're doing about 20 studs out remodels and then about two to three ground up development, specifically ADUs.
When ADUs were just starting to sprout out of the ground in Seattle and got burnt out, getting guys to show up on time that are in the trades while trying to maintain a timeline and hit those targets was very difficult at scale. So then I became a real estate agent because I knew if there was one thing that I enjoyed the most from the contracting side was actually negotiating the deal and making it come to a close with the client. So I was like, all right, let's, the next thing that's lowest hanging fruit is real estate sales did that was very successful for a year, but also didn't really like that.
I would date clients for 90 days and then call it quits. I was in it for the long haul. So then I was like, all right, let's continue to build on my existing relationships on the contractor side, existing relationships and just contracts, negotiations within the real estate sales component, but let's take it a step further.
So then I found myself in hard money lending and I haven't looked back ever since my clients that were my clients on the contracting side became my clients on the lending side. And some of those names that I was working with earlier on are big names in the Seattle industry now in the Seattle real estate space. Now that at the time I didn't know how lucky I was until now in hindsight, like Jimmy Tang, who does a lot of ADU developments, he was one of my early clients as a general contractor and then like a debacle as well.
So two, two movers and shakers in our industry that I had basically got very lucky because I could have had any other clients that weren't as invested in the real estate space as they are and have had tremendous growth and we've been able to grow together. So I'd say definitely having that early experience as a contractor has made my life on the lending side a lot easier.
[Stephen Husted] (22:49 - 23:07)
That makes total sense. It's interesting because I said, I did tell you one thing in the beginning. Well, I guess let's back up to our little story in the very beginning when we first met.
We might as well say it cause it's funny. Yeah. When we first met, we first met, you know, like you came highly recommended, but at first you were confusing me with some other guy.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (23:08 - 23:08)
Yes.
[Stephen Husted] (23:08 - 24:20)
Right. That was kind of dragging you on and just wasting your time. I guess that would really what it comes down to.
So every time we would talk, you're kind of just like, dude, what have you done? What kind of, I'm like, what do you mean? Why does he keep asking me how many deals I've done?
I'm like, what do you mean? I've, I've done way more than eight. Like have you, we kept going back and forth and then you finally figured out like, Oh, I'm so sorry.
I thought you were a different person. And, but something I told you when I flew in, I like to just implement people in my team and when they work, I want to get along with them, you know, be able to talk to them on the phone and not have to worry about that component anymore. I'm out there trying to find, like I'm trying to scale, develop, do all these other things.
And I don't want to worry about the financing part. I want to just talk to Israel and figure out what the best direction is, get that support and move on. Like, I don't want to have to like micromanage my, my loan officer or whoever, like, and I have before Israel, I'll tell you right now that project in Willow Glen, the Glen Una one, terrible.
And I knew it was going to be terrible. And that's the funny thing. I knew it was going to be a bad transaction.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (24:20 - 24:25)
If you could say one thing that early on was like a yellow flag, what was that?
[Stephen Husted] (24:25 - 26:02)
It was his personality with, he really wasn't for the client. Let me give you a good example. I'll give you a good example.
So we closed, right? And now we're getting ready to close on this project and we needed payoff. And so I got the lender information and I needed some information.
So I, we, we emailed him. And had a couple of questions about some fees. Right.
But didn't realize he had sold the loan off, you know, like it wasn't through this company and it was in another, and we have it in an LLC, but my business partner bought it. Right. She was the buyer I'm on the LLC, but we do this all the time.
We kind of, do you want to buy this one? You put it, you know, so we're playing this game. And when we asked the questions, he came back and goes, Hey, we sold the loan off.
Please take us off this communication. And I'm like, you're right. You're right.
We are going to take you off this communication forever, because really what he should have said was, Hey, we sold it off. Let me see if I can help you out. Let me get whatever, you know, let me go back to your file.
Let me see. Let me just do a little, just do a little bit of research. Yeah.
Instead it was like, you know, take us off this communication. I was just like, what? Oh, I know what it was about.
Now I remember what it's about. Uh, it was a question about, uh, uh, lean waivers because we're getting ready to close and one of the things escrow wanted was some type of lean waiver document.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (26:02 - 26:03)
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (26:03 - 26:35)
So that's why I went back to him like, Oh, okay. It's got to be through this company because they're the ones that we went through them to fund the construction part. So I'm like thinking that there's some way they're going to be the ones that help with this lean waiver form, which I know what the form was.
We filled it out every time we did a draw. Right. And to the very end of like, you know, so that no one goes back, there's no contractor coming out after the fact.
And he couldn't, he's just like, I don't want to have anything to do with that. And I'm like, set that email. I went straight to my phone, deleted the contact.
We're done. Like that's it. Simple.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (26:36 - 28:38)
It's yeah. Different, different loan officers have different setups. The one thing that I can tell you, one of the worst things that you can lose is control as a loan officer, and you can either broker your deals out, or you can be the direct originator and that distinction alone can mean your experience is completely different night and day because a broker will go ahead and originate the loan, set you up with the lender, but they lose control over any visibility into the loan processing, where they're at valuations, where the, where the valuation is at, and then even on the servicing side, once you're making payments and visibility into payments, why payments are not going through, why ACHs are failing, but when you're working with the direct originator, anytime you can, you should now granted brokers have a place in the, in kind of the ecosystem, very difficult deals, brokers are great because they have many different outlets, but if you have a vanilla deal that doesn't take you to get super creative, it's just a purchase and maybe a renovation component, that's, that's pretty vanilla having the ability to be in a direct originator, it gives you visibility into everything and full control to be able to just pick up the phone and say, Hey, I've got this situation from my client. These are the issues. How can we solve it?
Or, Hey, can you give me clarity into what's going on? And I think that may have been what you experienced where even direct originators will sell loans off, but they, depending on how their setup is, they will still have access to anything going on with servicing. That's exactly what we've set up where we're not willing to give away servicing.
We still need access to everything because we know from application intake to the loan is sold. Basically the loan is paid off by the client. If you lose any control throughout that process, that directly impacts your experience and therefore your ability to come back.
[Stephen Husted] (28:40 - 30:05)
Yeah. And a lot of it too, was you brought up something here. So creative financing, right?
It's big with hard money and just development, right? We're always trying to like, we got things that come up and this is why we get hard money because we get creative and we want to like bounce something off you like, Hey, I'm thinking about, you know, we're trying to structure this, this way, you know, can we do this? There's a lot of back and forth.
He was getting upset that he's like, Hey, we need to close escrow on this transaction. I'm like, no, I was able to negotiate with the seller that we're going to close escrow once we get permits in hand. So we've done an addendum to the contract and we're going to get permits and then we're going to close escrow concurrently.
He was so upset about that. And I'm like, dude, what do you mean? I'm saving $60,000.
Yes, this is what we're doing. You're going to sit back and you'll, you'll get paid at some point. But he was just, instead of like, yeah, yeah, that's a good idea.
Like, let's do that. You know, contact me like close to about a month and we'll just kind of float things along. I'll keep your documents updated.
We'll keep, you know what I mean? Like that's how the team plays like where you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to, this is where we're going to start communicating again.
You know what I mean? You keep me posted on when, you know, where you are in the permit process. And yeah, that's a good game plan.
That wasn't what he said. So I was so pissed.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (30:06 - 30:07)
Yeah. I can tell you that.
[Stephen Husted] (30:07 - 30:10)
I just had to get it done, dude. That's one of the secrets.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (30:11 - 31:16)
If you can structure every single one of your new construction deals that way, that is how you save hundreds of thousands of dollars on holding costs. Yeah. That is how most, most big builders up here.
They'll do that. They'll lock up properties with the 12 or 18 month close, give non-refundable earnest money. And then close on permits.
Or self that, because the thing that I think is important to note is that construction financing typically is held up by, do you have plans and permits? Especially if it's infill development where there's a beat up property, then you can close early if you absolutely need to, or that seller needs to get cashed out. But if you have raw land, let's talk about that.
Raw land financing is hard in it hard because most banks don't finance it. And those who do require you to put 50% down. So that's why builders will close on permits because their financing is a lot easier.
So anybody that can do that, I'd say, hands down, that's, that's a golden nugget that people should use more often.
[Stephen Husted] (31:16 - 32:38)
Yes. And so you could see why I was upset, you know, like he pushed me to, I'm like, you're basically costing me money. Like you're not on the same wavelength here.
So anyways, live and learn. So that is the thing, and it really comes down to when you become a real estate investor, how you figure out your team is such a, I say this over and over and over again, and I think you brought this up when we were talking to Alicia, I'm basically mentoring her, right? This is a partnership, but it's a mentorship too.
And when people are getting mentored, they see a different direction because the person that's mentoring them has is navigated through all the bad shit. Right. And understands how to put a team together better because they've learned over time.
And you still get burned here and there. You still get burned from your contractor, your handyman, your property manager, your tenant, it still happens. It doesn't matter.
You can get as best you can. But the point is you start and you brought this up. And when we were talking, you told her like, Hey, you guys got a great team around you already.
Like it was, we got you, we got Ian, we got a good contract. You know what I mean? Like there's good, solid team.
And that really, you have to have that because one bad apple will can take down the whole scenario.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (32:39 - 33:18)
You can always swap out pieces, right? There's depending on the project and scope, you bring in different experts. Right now you guys are working on ADU projects in Seattle.
Tomorrow you guys may be working on a skyscraper. Then I will be referring you out, but I still, you're putting that team together and it's depending on how you're pivoting, what deals come up, et cetera, that at the end of the day, it still takes a village to make a deal work. And most real estate investors don't actually know what they're doing, to be honest with you.
The one thing that they do know how to do well is put together a team and figure things out on the spot. That's all it is.
[Stephen Husted] (33:18 - 34:07)
It's such a great, that is such a great point because I bring this up to people. I go, look, man, half the time, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to figure it out. Like, that's the key.
Like move forward, figure it out, taking information. Look what I brought up to you. Speaking of different things, scenarios, Feeney in the beginning, we thought that it was zoned differently.
Right? And next, you know, we're talking about building an apartment complex. For one hour, I'm like, Oh no.
And you're telling me stuff. I'm like, okay, should I do this? Is this possible?
Is this going to ruin me? Is this going to be a financial mistake? Like, you know, that's the, all those things come through.
Well, okay. Then Lisa's like, what are we going to do? I'm like, we ask a lot of questions.
We call a lot of people.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (34:08 - 34:26)
I think my, that's how at the time, I think I told you if everything else fails, will you still make money? And I think the answer was, yeah, you probably make a hundred thousand. I was like, you, you, you make a hundred thousand dollars to learn a development project.
I was like, that's a really good day.
[Stephen Husted] (34:28 - 34:31)
And I was like, yeah, that was a good point. That that's what sealed it.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (34:31 - 35:05)
And I was like, Hey, if you can fathom the worst possible scenario, your process, your worst scenario is actually you ending up in the green. I think, I think this is a really good deal because you have multiple exit strategies. So I think that that is key as well, depending on what you have in front of you, looking at it from different angles to make sure that if things do go sideways, you can pivot and you can get out of it.
I think that your worst possible scenario was you go through, you buy it, you get permits, and then you sell it off to a builder. You basically flip the development. So that's what we were talking about
And that is a pretty safe play.
[Stephen Husted] (35:07 - 35:30)
Yes. And that's turned out on one 17th was the same way where, you know, there was a builder that wanted to spend $140,000 more than us. I'm not telling that story again, cause I've told it a couple of times on, on podcasts, but that one was a good play.
This one came, we got it for 565 and it appraised for 625.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (35:30 - 35:30)
Lisa.
[Stephen Husted] (35:30 - 35:30)
Yeah.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (35:31 - 35:32)
I think 625.
[Stephen Husted] (35:32 - 36:31)
Yeah. 625. And then ARV after repair value, once we complete it of 925 for the main house.
So that one is we're doing good on like really good. So really, I think what I'm going to do a year from now, I think it's going to be good because I'm going to start making more content on this, what's going on. Honestly, I haven't yet.
I've made some, but I haven't really gotten into the technical part of it. And part of the reason why I'm like, okay, I'm not an expert yet. So I shouldn't be telling people what I'm doing or how I'm doing it.
Cause I'm probably wrong. But everyone's like, wants to know like the direction of like, I guess I could make contact just saying, Hey, look, yeah. When you first look at a project, you want to make sure that the lot doesn't have a ton of trees, you know, or a tank, oil tank that could be, that could be an issue down the road.
Financially there's, you know, all kinds of different moves. Yeah. It's just been, it's been pretty damn overwhelming.
Overwhelming in a good way too.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (36:31 - 37:04)
And it's the journey at the end of the day that you're, I would say showcasing. You don't have to be the expert at everything, every single step. I think people really want the stories, the journey.
What, what are the difficulties that you're going through and how did you overcome whatever it is that it's in front of you think people can learn a lot from that where you don't need to be completed, but that the journey is definitely the gold is in the details. And if you show the journey, you will be inspiring a lot of people to take action because there's a lot of people with money that are not taking action.
[Stephen Husted] (37:06 - 38:37)
True. True. And that's the, that's a big part of it.
I think what I was, and I got was to come back a year from now and walk through all those projects and like where they turned out financially, all the, you know, whatever, paint that big picture, Dennis is going to, is going to. Say a lot in there. Were we right?
Were we wrong? Did these numbers make sense? You know, a lot of questions, you know, some of the what if questions I have on all of this.
And maybe you can shed some light is, you know, when you condoize these houses, so that the single family turns into a condo, correct? You know, what does that change on? And why I bring that up is the Glenn in a project I did here in San Jose.
We did an additional house. We, we took up a lot of the backyard. It still had a beautiful deck at grass, had a fire pit area, but it wasn't a huge backyard.
And that was a sticking point to some buyers, you know, they're like, I have the backyard small. Where in, from what I'm seeing is they just want space to, you know, have a place to sit, suck, you know, less is more because they got the great outdoors. Beats the sound.
I'm that's what I'm thinking in my head, or they got downtowns and places, parks and all that. It's a different mindset. I could be off on that, but I'm curious to see.
Where, how the devaluing of the splits affects the main house on how we sell them. So I think that's my biggest thing, right?
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (38:37 - 40:47)
The Finney project, for example, where you're finishing out, so your exposure to the amount of value decreases as a result of quote unquote, removing a backyard and building up a second unit is mitigated when there's a decent amount of value add on the existing. Meaning, are you finishing an attic? Are you finishing a basement?
Are you taking a 1500 square foot house and converting it into a 2,500 square foot house by finishing unfinished areas? The answer is yes. I can tell you the value is going to naturally go up because you've got a much more functional and space that's ultimately increasing livable square footage that mitigates your risk.
Sure. If you are buying a 1500 square foot home, that's yeah. You're doing some touch up here and there, but you're not really adding additional square footage.
Then you're a little bit more exposed. No situations I'm seeing anywhere between on average 50 grand and a 50 grand hit on the main house on a decrease. I have seen a few with a hundred thousand dollar hits.
The goal there is though that your ADU, the second unit that you're building is that you're building it at 50 cents of retail value. So a lot of times the back of the napkin numbers are if you're building for 350, it should be worth 700 and that's pretty common in Seattle where you can absorb some losses on the main house and make it up on the, on the back. The margins on DADU projects in Seattle have been getting compressed over the last year because everybody's looking for ADU projects.
Therefore people are willing to pay more to get into these projects. That's what I will say. Margins have been getting compressed, but there's still deals out there.
The best deals that I am seeing are off market. A lot of the on market stuff is definitely getting that up super expensive, but there's still at the end of the day, one winner, somebody that locks up that property, maybe a little bit more expensive than what they should have paid. But the, there's still a lot of meat on the bone and that's why people are willing to pay more.
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (40:47 - 41:29)
Yeah, definitely. I think we got pretty lucky on the three that we got. I don't know that they'd even, they, we just locked it up in 24 hours, which was a little rare, and I think that was that agent's, you know, not drag it out a little bit and set an offer date.
They probably could have made a lot more, but that, and that 117th, and here's another interesting thing about working with you is you're like putting out pre-approvals for like every, every deal that we're looking at. Like, you know, all the, you know, all the, the builders and the investors through springboard looking at these deals too, which is intriguing. All the numbers for these ADU projects are very similar.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (41:31 - 43:42)
Like I can tell you, yeah, anybody that says, Hey, I've got a single family residence that needs to, that we need to do some value add and then build an ADU. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking, okay, this is a $1.2 million deal because that is literally every single ADU projects is a $1.2 million deal on average. And then my team's like, how do you know that?
I'm like, because the numbers are all the same. It's just different address or sometimes we're expanding the main house and adding a little bit more on the renovations, but it's the same thing in Seattle. That's been really key
The interesting component of Seattle and the greater Washington area is that July 2025, we're going to be able to do what Seattle and Kirkland have allowed statewide. So it is a gold mine. It's going to be the wild, wild west.
And there's going to be people that are going to lose money. And there's going to be people that are going to make a lot of money. The reason why I'm saying that there's going to be people that are going to lose money is because just because you can build an ADU doesn't mean you shouldn't.
The costs are going to be relatively, and let me go into that. The costs are going to be relatively the same, regardless if you're an hour North or South of Seattle, but the location is different, meaning the ARV, what these properties will come in on the exit side is going to be a lot different in course Seattle versus an hour North where the average price points go from for an ADU for $700,000 versus now $500,000. So if you go over budget, you're all in at $4,450 and now you're selling for $500,000, you're not making any money on those deals.
That's what I'm saying. Just because you can build an ADU and the state's coming down with this new legislation to allow us to build ADUs and condoize doesn't mean you should. You still need to run your numbers at the end of the day to make sure that there's margin on the deal.
So that, that is the one thing. The other thing that we're starting to hear in Seattle is that the maximum square footage is, might go from a thousand to 1,500 square feet. So that will be a game changer as well.
[Stephen Husted] (43:42 - 44:39)
Three, two and a three, two. Yes. And that's why we're, we're land banking the 125th project for the future.
And that one, you didn't help us with, but that one, we bought, we bought it cash and we're in planning for daddy. Number one, we built out the main house, the basement and the upper unit, so to speak, but then we are, we did the, the condo map and separated into threes, but then we decided we're instead of selling the main house, we're keeping it now because just in case there's something that goes on in the planning with like the lot line that we can, we can control changing it because we still own the main, the main house, that was, that was an interesting little component to it.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (44:39 - 47:00)
You know, right now you have a lot of people buying oversized lots. They're just buying, they're like, I don't know what I'm going to be able to do, but I'm buying it, especially if it's like in a core area where there is no more land, because there, there might be a world where we're able to put two 1500 square foot, 80 years, basically a duplex and in Seattle, each one of those things, 1500, you can reach a million dollar price point really quick if it's in the right location. But the, the thing that excites me the most about 80 years, I know we're diving deep into the numbers and getting into the details, but just stepping back, the thing that's made 80 years so successful is that Seattle is confined by land, by, by water, there's, there's nowhere to go, but vertical. So then you're left with your average price point for someone wanting to buy a house from 1.5 to 2 million really quickly. So now you're bringing a thousand square foot, be simple structure, detach, it's not a condo. It's a detached structure. That's a thousand square feet, typically two baths, two baths.
And now you're bringing it to market anywhere between 600 to 800,000 on average, depending on where you're located and you're, you're providing inventory that's now affordable, new construction, and that stuff sells really quickly. So you're providing at the end of the day, housing, which is what the state wants is why it's making it easier for us. Did you ever wonder why condoizing isn't handled at the city level?
No, I never even thought about it. Condoizing, if it were to be handled at the city level, which is basically, Hey, I've got a house when I create an HOA, and now I've got two separate tax ID numbers so I can build the ADU. But the reason why the city has quote unquote delegated that out to attorneys is they don't have the staff or the overhead to do that process.
So like, how do we add housing without putting strain within our own operation? So they just ship that off to attorneys and now we're cranking and other cities are looking at Seattle to mirror that model to basically bring more inventory. San Jose, for example, they had their first ADU that was sold separately not too long ago.
So it's a lot of cities are following suit.
[Stephen Husted] (47:01 - 50:09)
It's that condo attorney part of it is, is interesting because as the owner choosing the, the name of what you're doing, you could add certain things into the CC&Rs, like there's like things you can add. I'm like, wait, whoa. I'm like building out an HOA here.
This is kind of crazy. She's like, I can just choose a name for you. I'm like, all right, yeah, go ahead and do that.
You know, and then everything was, she would ask questions. I've had a couple of meetings and I'm going to have her on my, my podcast too now, because it was intriguing. Well, um, she'd ask a question and I would come back and say, what are other people doing?
And then just getting the advice and then I'd run it by Ian. How, how are you handling this part? Like, I don't understand like what, I don't want to make a mistake, but I'm just trying to get feedback on it.
It's true Seattle and the, the geographically with houses and how it is. Oh, the, the ADU's daddoos all make a lot of sense. They're the way that these houses sit.
I've said this be, I've said this a few times on the podcast, but San Jose, yes. Has Pat, you know, San Jose, Santa Monica. Definitely more with, you know, you guys, uh, an ADU, but the neighborhoods are different Israel.
Not as dense. I've had this, I've said this before. I talked to Ian about this.
I brought it up to Ian. It was the funniest thing when I, when I brought it to Ian, like the first day we met and we're looking at properties and I'm like, oh, it's just different than he's like, that's some limited beliefs there. I'm like, shit, is it limiting and beliefs?
I have a deep dive this. I'm like, but then more people like, uh, Alicia and just other people say, yeah, it's, it's, we just have different types of lots and they're not as private. Meaning you might have, uh, you know, lots is 10,000, but you're parking in front of either to the name you're going to, you're going to enter to get to the ADU from the side gate, right.
Or the right fence. It's not going to be that private whatsoever, where even with your most in Seattle, even the neighborhoods where there's no alley access, let's say you have the house, the next right next to it is let's say the carport, right. And then the left is the driveway, right?
Well, they'll just pull that driveway all the way to the very back corner of the lot, build the dad do in that corner, re-fence it off, get that front a little bit or give the, the dad in the back it's private front area and the side, right. It just fits right. Where I'm trying to like, you know, side trying to, I mean, is there options?
Is there lots here? It's, uh, I see, it seems like there's more in, uh, Southern California and I'm sure there's more places I keep hearing about like Fresno and maybe Sacramento. It really comes down to lots.
Well, how you can lay it out. I just know parts of San Jose, just not going to work. And there's also, you can have it back.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (50:09 - 50:21)
There's also infill, right? You can get some off market inventory. That's completely beat up.
You come in and scrape the whole thing and redesign it to your business model. So there's that component as well.
[Stephen Husted] (50:22 - 50:29)
Yes, definitely. But our price points are crazy too. They're insane.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (50:29 - 51:40)
You know, fixers are one for, yeah, you still need to run the numbers because, um, while it may not make sense to basically buy and build to rent, basically buy, build it and then keep it. It may make sense to build and sell, right? That's kind of the, the friction point between Kirkland, which is, um, East of Seattle versus Seattle.
Kirkland is a much more expensive price point. 1.2 to 1.5 is pretty standard. That's like your, your entry point.
The reason why builders aren't keeping them is because the rents are very similar to Seattle. 3,500 to 4,000 for a two, two, three, two, where the price points to buy there, the real estate is basically in half, basically eight, 550 to 800, pretty standard to get in, in the Seattle area, whereas in Kirkland, it's 1.2 to 1.5, similar to what you're describing, where a lot of the builders aren't keeping them because the rents are the same. So if you're truly trying to build these things to keep them for your portfolio, there's another market that makes sense, and I wonder if you guys have something similar like that in California.
[Stephen Husted] (51:43 - 52:06)
Yeah, I think that's something we're going to work. We're definitely look, I'm constantly looking. But that one that just is my no brainer thought process, just cause I'm concerned about San Jose and how they're going to approach it and what kind of delays am I going to have on all avenues?
What else have you been doing? What have you been up to besides work?
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (52:06 - 52:52)
Outside of work, my main, I like to do two to three projects a year, mainly tunnel developments or ADU developments. And my, my model is, I just want to keep it simple. Because when I was doing two to three different things basically two to three different businesses at once, I realized that I was just stretching myself too thin.
So for the personal investment side of things, mainly doing new construction, I like it. It's predictable. I'm able to pull from my past experience and keep moving forward.
So I've got a business partner. We do two to three job sites a year. He does more projects, but that allows me to stay sane and still play the game.
It's kind of like how I like to think about it.
[Stephen Husted] (52:53 - 53:00)
Anything, anything, anything above that. Stay sane to play the game. That's a great, that's a great quote.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (53:01 - 53:26)
Anything above three is just, it gets chaotic. So that's why two to three and two to three job sites. It can be multi-units at the end of the day.
I think of it as one big box. You can chop it up however you want. Yeah, but, but yeah, that's, that's kind of like what I do outside of work, outside of that, just traveling.
Got to make sure that I'm traveling at least four times a year. Once a quarter to keep the, to keep the engine going.
[Stephen Husted] (53:27 - 54:07)
Totally. I'm right there with you on that, man. I think when we brought that up, I'm like, okay, cool.
I always bring that up to people, you know, do you travel? What do you, what do you do? And the, the ones that say they don't, are they just hearing, I'm like, you got to get out there.
Whether it's just, you know, two hours away from where you live and you're going into a forest or to a lake, whatever it is, you got to kind of recalibrate. Absolutely. You know, well, I appreciate you jumping on today.
And I think it's funny that, uh, the day of our closing. So you did bring up something just now you said more than three could be chaotic.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (54:07 - 55:05)
So if I guess, if I call you in like a month or so and say, I have something else, you might have to talk me off the ledge of doing it because I'm already way I'm deep in it, but you're, you're, you're doing it full-time and you have a team, I have a team as well, but I just find that I enjoy the lending component more, so I try to focus my time on what I enjoy the most. And so the lending is more of my active income. The investing is the build outs are kind of like my midterm income where I could build and get out within a year.
And then I still hold some of them. So we're still growing wealth long-term. So that's kind of like the three buckets, right?
Kind of like your, your fast cash, your, your medium term cash, and then your long-term wealth by keeping some of these, that's kind of how I focus the three. But you have to have a cash cow going to play the realistic game. So that's where the lending component comes in and I enjoy it the most.
[Stephen Husted] (55:06 - 56:01)
Yeah. You got to have a couple. We were, I just talked to one of my other, who you've not met, but she's going to be entering our other LLC will be coming into Seattle and I've told her this, like we always have to have three different incomes that are kind of generating through it because we're not going to get rich off $250 a month on, you know, a rental property in Kansas city, it's just whatever, you know, like development side is a whole different ball game on that. And there's other avenues too.
And you kind of have to work them together. It takes time. Cause else you start to run out of cash where different things happen.
You know, it's been, it's kind of crazy. Like I'm going to be out there next, next week. Yeah.
We should get together. Uh, do you still talk to Jimmy? Jimmy Ting?
Yeah. We can get together. We should get together and we should get lunch or dinner.
What's to make it happen? That'd be cool. Where do you live from?
Like North Seattle? Like how far are you away?
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (56:01 - 56:14)
I live in SeaTac, which is five minutes away from the airport. So I'm probably 20 minutes away from downtown Seattle. Very, very central.
Okay, cool.
[Stephen Husted] (56:14 - 56:15)
Yeah. We should get together.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (56:15 - 56:16)
Let's make it happen.
[Stephen Husted] (56:16 - 56:18)
When, when are you going to be in town? Next Tuesday?
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (56:19 - 56:21)
Tuesday through like Thursday or something like that.
[Stephen Husted] (56:21 - 56:39)
Yeah. Yeah. This one, I'm going to, we're going to keep these trips short couple of days because they're starting to add up financially, but we kind of need to this year to kind of keep things moving in the right direction, but yeah, a couple of days.
Let's make it happen. Probably Tuesday, Wednesday, I'll shoot you a text and we'll, we'll coordinate.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (56:40 - 57:06)
Cool. Where can the audience find you? If you want to reach out to me directly for any loans, you can call or text me 425-346-3348 and then if you want to keep up with what I'm doing day to day, I've got to try to put out more content on social media.
You can find me on Instagram on Israel underscore Lopez underscore exhibit. So yeah. More than happy to connect with everybody.
[Stephen Husted] (57:07 - 57:57)
Cool. Yeah. And I'll put it all in the show notes and it's been good.
Like lately, this last one, I'm like, Oh cool. I get to add you to the Finney story and like, sorry, here's my lender. It's like, now you got this person.
So yeah, it's been cool. And I appreciate you with all your help, you know, and helping me think out of the box and, and yeah, you get it done that I have to say, like you passed my test. Like, I was like, okay.
And this one too, cause you could have closed. We, well, I mean, we could have closed this one earlier, but I was going to Costa Rica. So you kind of was like, ah, I don't think so.
And then you came back like, yeah, we got done. I'm like, Oh shit. He's ready to go.
So that's impressive too. So now I know your secret. I really need that favor happen.
You can get it done.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (57:57 - 58:00)
I like to under promise and over deliver.
[Stephen Husted] (58:00 - 58:14)
Yes. Yeah. I like that.
And you know, that's good because my, my good friend who's my lender here in San Jose, he's the same way. Like he plays that really well, like kind of downplay it and then knock it out of the park. So I appreciate that.
[ISRAEL LOPEZ] (58:14 - 58:23)
I appreciate you and just the, the friendship, the being able to build a relationship with you has been incredible. And thank you for having me on. It's, it's been amazing.
[Stephen Husted] (58:24 - 59:08)
Yeah. I appreciate you jumping on dude. Well, I guess I'm going to let's just end it now and I'll be hearing from you and probably an hour or so with the closing of Finney.
Let's make it happen. All right, buddy. Have a good rest of your day.
I'll talk to you soon. Take care.
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