Episode 60 - How Sabrina Smai Turned One House Into Four Using the BRRRR Strategy
What happens when a tech professional discovers the power of turning one house into four? In this episode, Sabrina Smai shares her journey from house hacking on cup noodles to building multi-unit developments, scaling a 20-door portfolio, and managing everything with one virtual assistant in the Philippines. She opens up about her first massive project, why adding density is the future, how she uses custom GPT models for property management, and the deeper mission behind her real estate success, creating truly affordable homes for families who need them most. Sabrina is a Seattle-based investor, developer, mentor, and tennis-obsessed matcha lover. She teaches people how to get into infill development and believes that solving bigger problems leads to bigger rewards. This conversation is packed with real stories, real lessons, and real shortcuts for anyone interested in scaling smarter.
Stephen and Sabrina talked about:
00:00 Introduction and Overcoming Technical Difficulties
04:38 Current Investing Strategies
06:27 First Development Project Experience
14:50 Dealing with Tenants and Legalities
20:39 Property Management Challenges and Solutions
34:03 The Puzzle of Real Estate Goals
33:24 Financial Goals and Real Estate Passion
38:10 The Challenges of Real Estate Investing
39:40 Hobbies and Personal Interests
43:27 Stephen's Men's Retreat Experience
49:08 Real Estate Strategies in Arizona and Seattle
50:40 Creative Real Estate Deals and ADUs
59:58 The Risks and Rewards of ADU Investments
TRANSCRIPT
∎ Teaser / Highlighted Clip
[Stephen Husted] (0:00 - 0:06)
Just doing this and working through issues, that's kind of the name of the game when it comes to investing.
[SABRINA SMAI] (0:07 - 0:12)
A hundred percent. That's basically inevitable. You're going to deal with problems.
That's you as an investor.
[Stephen Husted] (0:12 - 0:22)
Yeah. Problems, they come up when you least expect them and you have to troubleshoot really fast and get good at making movements and not second guessing yourself. Would you agree?
[SABRINA SMAI] (0:23 - 0:34)
A hundred percent. And I'm a big believer in the bigger the problems that you solve, the bigger the reward is. So just get good at solving really big problems and you'll get rewarded for it financially.
∎ Podcast Intro:
[Stephen Husted] (0:35 - 3:13)
Brace yourself for a wild ride into the unexpected. This ain't your typical success show. I'm here talking to real folks who've been through it all.
Skipping the fancy business talk for authentic stories. We're diving into childhood dreams, teenage escapades, and everything in between. No scripts, just the stories that truly mold success.
Each episode takes you on a journey through those breakthrough moments that pave their way. No fluff, just genuine stories. So whether you're chasing dreams or just love a good story, buckle up for wisdom, laughs, and the unexpected.
This is the Breakthrough Podcast where success is a journey, not just some fancy destination. Don't miss out. Hit the subscribe button now and join our Breakthrough crew. I got some incredible stories to share and you won't want to miss a single one.
∎ Guest Introduction:
Hi everyone. Today I'm talking with someone who is reshaping what value creation looks like in real estate.
Sabrina Smy is a tech turned investor who has built a powerful strategy around ADUs, condo conversions, and recognizing opportunities that most people completely overlook. One thing I appreciate about Sabrina is how she avoids chasing deals that only look like value add on the surface. She knows that what worked two years ago might not work today and she's putting in the effort to get ahead of what's coming next, especially with everything happening in Arizona and Seattle around affordability, density, and housing demand.
In this episode, we dig into real strategies with real numbers, how to spot hidden equity when building an ADU actually makes sense and when it's better to walk away. If you want to invest smarter, avoid the ADU trap and learn how to prepare for policy changes before they happen. You're going to love this one.
Let's get right into it.
∎ Podcast Proper:
All right, we are live. So after our little bit of technical difficulties, I'm glad I didn't cancel.
I sometimes technology, it gets the best of me. And it starts to stress me out. And last night I'm not getting the cameras to work and I'm going, okay, I'm going to cancel, cancel you.
And you had to cancel the first time and now I was thinking I was going to cancel because I couldn't get the audio and all this stuff working. But I think we got it going. I think we're ready.
But Hey, look just doing this and working through issues. That's kind of the name of the game when it comes to investing.
[SABRINA SMAI] (3:13 - 3:19)
A hundred percent. Yeah. That's basically inevitable.
You're going to deal with problems. That's you as an investor.
[Stephen Husted] (3:19 - 3:31)
Yeah. Problems, they come up when you least expect them and you have to troubleshoot really fast and get good at making movements and not second guessing yourself. Would you agree?
[SABRINA SMAI] (3:31 - 3:43)
A hundred percent. And I'm a big believer in the bigger the problems that you solve, the bigger the reward is. So just get good at solving really big problems and you'll get rewarded for it financially in other ways.
[Stephen Husted] (3:44 - 4:35)
So I agree with you. I agree with you. So I tell this to a lot of the guests that come on.
I typically out there lurking, looking at people on Instagram or Facebook on what they're doing and when I think they're interesting, then I go through the rabbit hole of DMing through different platforms to get them on the podcast. And so you were on that list and I was like, okay, yeah, she's doing it. She's working.
And what I was seeing first and foremost, I knew you were in Seattle. I was, and I saw the people you were following that follow you and your friends and stuff. And it seems like the same group of people that I'm around.
And then I saw a video, you were down in LA, I think working on a project or doing something there. So that got me intrigued. So that's when I reached out.
So what are you doing in your investing journey at the moment?
[SABRINA SMAI] (4:36 - 5:14)
Yeah, right now I'm specializing or I'm focusing on basically adding density to single family homes. So infill development is kind of what I'm specializing. So I basically buy a single family home and I'll add smaller units or single family homes or ADUs and I condominiumize them, split them up and then either refinance them or sell them separately.
So I actually have never sold a house in my life, but I've kept all my deals, but that's pretty much what I do is I like to just turn one house into four, one house into six, one house into three, just get more families in a smaller piece of land.
[Stephen Husted] (5:14 - 5:18)
How did you get started on all this? What was that light bulb moment for you?
[SABRINA SMAI] (5:19 - 6:22)
Well, I first started real estate by doing house hacking. So I started house hacking cause I just genuinely, I was working in tech and I wanted to reduce my housing costs and I wanted to buy real estate. So I started bedroom renting and I was doing that conventionally.
And I couldn't understand how people could scale so quickly. So I had to wait a year, save up, you know, eat cup noodles essentially for a year to get the next down payment, 20% down conventionally. And then what I had learned about the BRRRR method, that's when I was like, Oh, it all clicked to me.
That's you can recycle your startup capital over and over again by doing the BRRRR method. And then Thach Nguyen, who is a good friend and mentor of mine, was the one who kind of opened my eyes up to development and how much of a larger margin you can get and you can help solve a larger problem that we have, which is we don't have enough inventory for families. And that's what kind of got me really intrigued.
And then that's what I started executing on deals where I can buy a lot and then add additional units to it. And ever since, like, I would never go back. This is like what I'm going to do for the foreseeable future.
[Stephen Husted] (6:23 - 6:27)
Right. Right. Yeah.
How was that first deal that you did from start to finish?
[SABRINA SMAI] (6:29 - 7:39)
Well, it's funny because the first ever deal that I did that was supposed to be an ADU project, I didn't realize that I bought a bigger project than I was anticipating. So a lot of ADU projects, you buy a single family zoned single family, but I bought a single family property on a multifamily zoned lot. So my permitting actually took two and a half years because I didn't realize that I was actually not just doing a simple ADU addition.
I was actually now had the ability to build multiple single family homes and ADUs. So in a sense, I was just trying to maximize my highest and best use. And I was like, I'm going to go with it.
But because it took so long, I moved on to other projects and I executed those. And then it took again, two or three years after for me to finally complete that first ever project. But I had done multiple other projects in between then.
So my first project, I just completed it essentially. It was the biggest project I had ever done was like my first ever development project. And then the other ones were easy, quick.
And so, yeah, I wish it was a more interesting story, but yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (7:40 - 7:43)
What did you do on that first one? What did you build out? How many units?
[SABRINA SMAI] (7:43 - 7:57)
Yeah. So I bought a single family home that I turned into a duplex. So I converted the basement into an ADU and then I built a single family home and then built an ADU as well.
So it was one house that turned into four houses.
[Stephen Husted] (7:58 - 8:01)
Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah.
It's so cool when you get down with it, right?
[SABRINA SMAI] (8:01 - 8:02)
It is.
[Stephen Husted] (8:02 - 8:27)
And you see what, you know what I mean? Like when it's all done, whether you went through a bunch of stuff and it was crazy. The point is you started with an idea.
You went through the shit of it all. Oh yeah. And you probably had a lot of doubt.
A hundred percent. You learned a bunch and then you got it to the finish line. And so now that you got it to the finish line, what is that property doing for you?
You kept everything, right? Cause you said you keep all your property.
[SABRINA SMAI] (8:27 - 8:28)
Yes. Yes.
[Stephen Husted] (8:28 - 8:35)
Okay. So you kept them, you finished it off and then what did you do? Did you then refinance and burr out of it, so to speak?
[SABRINA SMAI] (8:36 - 8:36)
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (8:36 - 8:37)
Like one big burr.
[SABRINA SMAI] (8:37 - 9:07)
Yeah. No, actually I burred it. I burred it in half if that makes sense.
So I actually did a subdivision. So I was able to do the burr method on both sides. So I actually just pulled money out of both properties cause there are two different structures that have two different units in a sense.
So I just burred. So they somewhat cashflow a little bit and I was able to pull out like I think two or $300,000 tax free so that I could move on and do another project.
[Stephen Husted] (9:07 - 9:13)
That's wonderful. And now they're all rented. What year was this?
[SABRINA SMAI] (9:14 - 9:25)
So I actually bought this at the end, I think 2023 or end of 2022 was the time that I had bought. It was like December of 2022.
[Stephen Husted] (9:26 - 9:31)
And then you got a property manager in the mix and then got it. No, you're doing self-managing.
[SABRINA SMAI] (9:32 - 9:44)
Yeah. I basically kind of what I preach. It's funny cause I actually have a virtual assistant that runs my entire property management business.
So I don't have a property manager. They're out in the Philippines and they're literally doing showings from a different country.
[Stephen Husted] (9:45 - 9:50)
So great. I know my whole team's from the Philippines too.
[SABRINA SMAI] (9:50 - 9:56)
Oh no way. That's freaking awesome. Oh yeah
Well do they do your property management? Cause you need to get on that.
[Stephen Husted] (9:56 - 10:14)
No, but you just, what do you think I'm thinking when you just said that? I was like, you're like, I'm telling you. How did you work?
So in theory, yeah, I could pull that off. I would be more concerned about all the laws and things like that. How do you navigate through all that?
Do you use an attorney?
[SABRINA SMAI] (10:14 - 10:55)
Well, yes. So two things. I have an attorney that I have access to.
So in terms of attorney, like laws, I actually created a custom GPT model for my virtual assistant so that if they have any sort of questions that needs to run through the custom GPT and then every single email that they send to a tenant or any sort of form that they fill out, it needs to go through me first. So, cause I know the laws, but then if they have any sort of questions or they're dealing with a problem that they don't know how to navigate, it needs to go through that custom GPT model that is for Washington law or California law or Arizona law. So they already know what the steps are of how to execute on a tenant problem.
[Stephen Husted] (10:57 - 10:59)
Custom GPT. That's also awesome.
[SABRINA SMAI] (11:00 - 11:01)
And it's easy to do.
[Stephen Husted] (11:01 - 11:02)
It's the way of the world right now.
[SABRINA SMAI] (11:03 - 11:15)
It's so easy to create and I can even share with you my custom GPT model. It's so, so easy to, to create, but I can just share that with you so that they could just use that or either Washington or LA or whatever it is.
[Stephen Husted] (11:16 - 11:21)
That's amazing. That's amazing. That's where your tech background shine, huh?
[SABRINA SMAI] (11:25 - 11:30)
But I suck at systems. I suck at systems. So, which is, yes.
[Stephen Husted] (11:31 - 11:51)
Yeah. Well, I guess it really depends on what part of tech you are in. You know what I mean?
There's some engineers that I've talked to that are just really good at that part. That's usually some part of their background too. And so how many people manage your properties out in Seattle are all over?
How many do you have and how do they manage all of them? Are they 24 seven? Like how does that all work?
[SABRINA SMAI] (11:52 - 13:19)
Yeah. So I have about 20 doors. I have 20 doors and I have one person managing all of them and it's not 24 hours, but sometimes I do kind of pay him extra if he wants to work on the weekends.
For example, like on weekends is the best time for us to do showings. So he like my property manager wants to do extra hours sometimes and he'll go out and basically do a virtual showing, but we call it a self guided tour where we kind of give them instructions. We get them on zoom and then he'll actually show the place that he's there.
And the experience is almost identical to in person. And so we've gotten a ton of people just that rented with us just virtually. I think the biggest problem that we get sometimes is some people are sketched out.
Sometimes they hear an accent. They could tell that this person's not from here. So they're just like, wait, now you're asking me for money for a security deposit.
So I get that sometimes so that he knows what to do when that happens. He's, Hey, let me connect you to my manager. I don't tell people that I'm the owner, but let me connect you to my, and then they hear, I kind of make them feel comfortable and they're like, okay, I feel better about sending you money for the security deposit.
But that's like the biggest problem that I often get is sometimes they get a little bit sketched out depending on the person. But honestly, 85% of the time people just, they just kind of are like, all right, this is part of the process. It's a self-guided tour.
This guy's showing it to me and I want to move forward or I don't, but it's been pretty smooth sailing and I've been doing it for two years.
[Stephen Husted] (13:20 - 13:47)
Do they, because you're doing, you're got multiple things going on a lot, meaning you got a basement unit, you got some ADUs and DADUs and whatever the case may be. Do they question like lot lines and what is there? Like do they give you those type, like where's the parking?
Do they end up wanting to get to the house to actually walk it? Like how does that all play out? Because we get a lot of questions about that.
Like where's my parking spot for tenants? Yeah.
[SABRINA SMAI] (13:48 - 13:52)
So when like a prospect of tenant that wants to view the place?
[Stephen Husted] (13:52 - 13:56)
Yes. Yeah. They don't ever ask questions about things like that.
[SABRINA SMAI] (13:57 - 14:06)
Well, when they're doing the showing, my property manager would be like, okay, this is the parking spot and he'll like literally walk through a Zoom. So like any questions that they have, he'll be able to answer in real time.
[Stephen Husted] (14:07 - 14:36)
Yeah, that's perfect. That's great. And I've gone through the same issues as you with, we have properties out in Kansas city that are midterm rentals and my assistant will take them through it and they'll have some questions.
And I've had people, which was kind of interesting. I have to look into this, have figured out who I am. Like they'll, yeah.
And I'm like, wait a minute, I got an LLC. And next thing you know, I'm getting a phone call on my personal phone line.
[SABRINA SMAI] (14:36 - 14:38)
That happened to me two days ago.
[Stephen Husted] (14:38 - 14:39)
Really? Yes.
[SABRINA SMAI] (14:41 - 14:42)
It happens a lot.
[Stephen Husted] (14:43 - 14:46)
Yeah. Well, so much for being a little bit in the background.
[SABRINA SMAI] (14:47 - 14:47)
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (14:48 - 14:50)
Did that take you by surprise?
[SABRINA SMAI] (14:50 - 15:18)
Well, this story pissed me off so much, but I had a tenant that was like upset rightfully so. But he went on my Instagram, went on my link tree, used a different name, different email address. And it was like a, you know, I give free discovery calls for whatever.
And then he pops on. He's like, hi, Sabrina, I'm one of your tenants. And I'm like, what the fuck?
And we're on his phone and I'm just like, really? He's complaining because the baseboards were not caulked.
[Stephen Husted] (15:22 - 15:23)
Wow.
[SABRINA SMAI] (15:23 - 15:36)
And I was just like, dude, this place just got renovated. I'm so sorry. The baseboards just did not get caulked in that area.
I'm so sorry. And I was just like, yeah. So it's just.
[Stephen Husted] (15:36 - 15:40)
He got you. He got you.
[SABRINA SMAI] (15:41 - 15:45)
I didn't say a word. And he just like, it was crazy. But yes, that does happen
[Stephen Husted] (15:45 - 16:30)
And what did you say? What did you tell him? Because I had another tenant.
My contractor went to the property to do some handyman repairs. And she made it sound like she had my number and that she got a new phone and he gave her my number. And then she called me up like, hey, you know, and I'm like, wait, who are you?
She's like, yeah, I live in one of your properties. And I'm like, OK, what's going on? She's like, well, started negotiating with me on.
Hey, can you do paint touch ups every year? I'm going to stay longer. Can I get a discount down the road if it's and I'm just like, OK, you got to run that through my property management company.
That's who I pay. And then, you know, we went from there. But yeah, it's kind of weird.
[SABRINA SMAI] (16:30 - 17:16)
That is crazy. I feel like crazy. It's happened to me a lot.
So I just basically say, hey, I'm not the owner. I represent the owner, which is true because the deed is not under my name. The deed is actually under an LLC that rolls up to another Wyoming holding company.
So like, technically speaking, I'm not the owner. So I tell them, hey, I'm not the owner. I represent the owner.
And you know that like I just always direct them to like, I'm not going to help you out, essentially. Like, I'm just kind of training them to go back to a property manager because they think that they're going to be able to get away with a lot more by talking directly. But no, like I just I always just like you're going to have to go here.
I'm sorry. And I just try to train them to be like, I'm sorry, I'm not the owner. Maybe I might sound like it, but I'm not.
Just go back to the property manager.
[Stephen Husted] (17:17 - 17:35)
I like that approach. Yeah, I mean, and that's how you have to be. Whether it's a good phone call or a bad call, you kind of have to have that.
You have to do that. And it's interesting, you just said you have a Wyoming holding company. Yes.
Aren't you supposed to be the most under the radar of any state to have to form?
[SABRINA SMAI] (17:36 - 18:35)
Yeah, I mean, having that corporate structure from an attorney perspective, from a like litigation perspective, there is anonymity. But the problem is that it's easy for people to find out who you are, but it doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter because in a court scenario, they won't be able to track you down.
So and there's like charge order protections and like all these anonymity things. But from a reality perspective, people can find out easily that you're the owner. It's just they can't really do anything about it, if that makes sense.
So if we were actually in court, like the attorney, that's the defense attorney, would not be able to figure out that this is, you know, I'm attached to this holding company because it's in a haven state that has strong anonymity laws and there's charge order protections. But sure, there's a lot of tenants that pretty much know that I'm the owner. It's just when we get to court, like it's just proof it.
[Stephen Husted] (18:35 - 18:44)
Where do you think it starts from just closing on a property on title and it's got your name, even though it's part of the LLC? There's somewhere where it first starts the connection.
[SABRINA SMAI] (18:44 - 19:34)
The connection of knowing who the owner is. Yeah, well, sometimes sometimes people like will close on their name and then they'll do a quick claim deed into LLC. And that's sometimes that's pretty obvious.
Like when I see that, I'm like, oh, yeah, they just created an LLC. But I feel like sometimes people can just tell that you're the owner. Like you can just tell if you don't have a full fledged property management website and they could tell that you're a mom and pop, right?
Then they can just tell by the way that you speak that maybe you care too much about what they say or like the property, like you're a little emotionally attached that they're just like, oh, like that sounds like an owner. Somebody else who's running hundreds of properties that are not owned by that they don't own would not care this much. So I just feel like tenants are smart and they can kind of figure out who the owner is just from the vibe, vibe check.
[Stephen Husted] (19:34 - 19:51)
Yeah, the vibe. Yeah. And you bring up a good point.
I mean, I care about my properties and my tenants. One of those types that if I get a tenant that stays for a while, I don't, I don't raise rents. I don't raise them.
[SABRINA SMAI] (19:51 - 19:53)
Yeah. You don't bother me. I don't bother you.
Let's go.
[Stephen Husted] (19:54 - 20:27)
Yeah. And honestly, now I'm thinking about this. I think the property management companies that really want to raise them, they make more money now.
Yes. Could there be points when they're really under market? I get that part.
But a lot of the property management companies I've dealt with, they're just constantly wanting to raise and raise. And we've had to go and backtrack on a lot of things. And I've told them, too, like, why am I raising rent on this single woman in this?
What's 50 bucks, 100 bucks going to? It's not changing anything in my business.
[SABRINA SMAI] (20:27 - 21:05)
Yeah. But they want to push the envelope because the more turnover that you have, the more money they truly make. And so that's true
So they're trying to push the envelope. And that's why I wanted to turn all of my property management in-house. There's only cheap properties that I have a property managed because I'm just like two.
It was my first ever property that I ever bought that duplex. And I'm too emotionally attached. But for everything else, it's all managed by my internal property manager that I had trained from the Philippines for a fraction of the cost.
And they don't do shit like that. There's so many things that property managers do that people don't even realize that they're being scammed on.
[Stephen Husted] (21:06 - 21:08)
Hmm. What would you put on that list?
[SABRINA SMAI] (21:09 - 22:23)
Well, one, sometimes they make a margin on some of the repairs that get made. Well, most of the time, because when they hire a repair person, they're not the ones paying for it. So they will go out and find the most convenient person, which means that they might be more costly, which means that they don't genuinely care about how much it costs.
But guess what? It's not coming out of their pocket. It's coming out of yours.
And so they don't have you in mind in terms of cost savings or anything like that. They're just trying to make it convenient for them as much as possible. And then another thing is, yeah, they're trying to push the envelope on rents so that you have that turnover, because that turnover, they'll get that lease fee, right?
That turnover fee that might be a worth a full month's worth of rent or half a month's worth of rent or a thousand dollars doesn't matter. But that's like a big chunk that they get right away. So they want that turnover.
So it's just ironic because property managers kind of have very differing outlooks, yeah, or outlooks or goals than the owner. So it's just it's very counterintuitive. And so it doesn't seem like they're on the right team.
They kind of seem to be opposite. And so that's why having an internal property manager that you train with your systems, your processes is just way better than hiring out property manager.
[Stephen Husted] (22:24 - 22:48)
We can go deep on this one. I got to touch on a couple of things about property management and things I've gone through recently. But do you think the because this is your full time job now, right?
Yes. OK, so you had time to kind of really put that infrastructure in place. Do you think it's hard to kind of is there a pretty big learning curve on taking on property management yourself and making sure it runs smooth and efficiently?
[SABRINA SMAI] (22:48 - 24:02)
I think so. But I do believe that people think that it's a lot more complicated than it actually is. And so that's why I'm a big fan of house hacking when you're living at the property or renting out other bedrooms or renting out another unit, because you're kind of there, you're learning how to be a homeowner, but then you're learning how to be a property manager.
So I think the learning curve might be at the very beginning when you're renting out your first ever tenant. So maybe I recommend people just use an agent or a property manager to just use the lease up part of it. And then when it comes to management, it's very similar to you maintaining a home.
And then once you kind of learn the process and you can talk to the agent or the property manager and let them know, hey, like, I've never done this before. I want to learn. So I'll pay you to do it, but I want to learn.
And so after you kind of do that cycle one time, you're just like, OK, it's not that bad. And then you kind of learn where to find the right resources. And then you can take their lease that the agent or property manager had used for that first tenant.
And then pretty much it's rinse and repeat. So it's not as complicated as people think. It's just more of maybe your personality and how busy you are to want to do property management or not.
But honestly, it's not as hard as people think, especially if it's a turnkey property and it's a good quality product.
[Stephen Husted] (24:04 - 26:16)
Yeah, and especially in a lot of two, I would say would come down to locations. Yes. Where do you really have these properties at?
And like you said, have you did a full rehab that you're not going to get a ton of calls on repairs? And if you got them in good locations, too, then typically those tenants are much better to deal with for the most part. I would ever say from my experience.
But to touch on about property management, when you got to repair and then just calling people one, this is a big topic. And I teach this to my mentees all the time when they're going to get into a market. First and foremost, I want them to create a really solid team and that team might take time.
You might get 90 percent of it correct, and then you might have one bad apple that can throw off the whole business. And you got to just keep going until you figure out all those pieces. But my experience with property management is whoever they hire costs more.
That's a given. So I always have a couple of different handyman's or a very good relationship with my contractor. And once I know that repair comes through, I see it.
I look at it and I assess. Is this something I want to take on or is it something they can handle? And if I notice it's going to be something that's going to cost me more, I just I take that.
I send it over to my other handyman and say, hey, go take it. They have all the addresses, the code. They know everything that's going on and I pass it along.
But my mentee student who bought some properties in St. Louis is having a really hard time and she's going through the struggles of how to manage people and understanding when things are going wrong. And she had a supposedly a leak in her basement and she got the repair and it was, hey, you got a leak. We had somebody out there.
It's five thousand dollars. What do you want to do? And she's just like, how did we just pass the city inspection to rent this and all this stuff?
How is it five thousand? And it's been sitting vacant. What is going on?
I said, listen, you need to get a solid handyman, somebody you trust on the ground. I have a friend that has got properties. Let's get him in the mix.
He jumps in. He goes and looks at it. He's like, there's no issue here
[SABRINA SMAI] (26:17 - 26:17)
Oh, my God.
[Stephen Husted] (26:17 - 27:07)
You are getting scanned. Wow. And also the issues that you paid for to pass your city inspection.
We're not done correctly. You're not going to pass. So whoever they hired to do this is not done correctly.
So you're going to sit in this cycle. So then I told her, I go, OK, hire him. Now you need to go through the city and you need to work directly with the city inspector and the prop and the handyman.
You guys work on getting this property ready for the market because the longer you sit not renting it, what happens? Break-ins, squatters, repairs, the list goes on. And yeah, I've experienced that every time I do a work order through property management, it's usually double.
It's like going through a termite company to do water related issues. It's always double. You might as well just hire somebody else.
[SABRINA SMAI] (27:08 - 27:15)
That's just crazy. Do you think that they're just adding a margin or they're just picking the most convenient person that you just cost more?
[Stephen Husted] (27:15 - 27:45)
Exactly what you said. I think honestly, I think depending on location, this doesn't happen everywhere. So let's just make sure I'm clear on that.
But I think some places, some markets, they know the people that are owning these properties are investors and they're usually out of state somewhere else. Are you flying out there? And hey, and if you're really busy, let's say you're really busy person.
That's not that in your business like you should be. You might just spend the five thousand, take it as a write off. You know, I mean, I don't know.
Depends on the person.
[SABRINA SMAI] (27:45 - 27:46)
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (27:46 - 27:56)
I mean, she was freaking out. She's like, I'm dumping money in these properties and they're not even rent. They're vacant.
How are we showing up to the property? And there's issues every time they show up, but there's nobody there.
[SABRINA SMAI] (27:57 - 27:57)
That's ridiculous
[Stephen Husted] (27:58 - 28:21)
Yeah. So that's on it. This is good information for any new investor because this is the real deal on things.
And I'm glad that jumped in there. Yeah, I want to understand what you're into now, what you're working on. What's exciting that's going on.
I know you got a lot of different things, and I heard that you got your mentoring people, too.
[SABRINA SMAI] (28:22 - 29:19)
Yeah, that's kind of the new thing that I'm doing. Well, it's coaching people how to basically get into development. So a lot of people think that development's scary, developments for the ultra wealthy.
You know what I mean? I feel like my goal is to kind of demystify that. And in 90 days, my goal is to try to get people their first development deal
Try. So it's great. Yeah.
So that's kind of my coaching. But what I'm doing now is I just now I'm trying to diversify my real estate portfolio because majority of my portfolio is in Seattle. And so I just bought a fourplex in Arizona a month ago, and it was just turnkey, but I'm just testing the market because I want to build there.
And then in Seattle, I just finished off like two, almost three projects. And they're all developments. Again, it's all adding density to smaller lots and fill development.
Just trying to create more affordable housing in the Seattle area.
[Stephen Husted] (29:19 - 29:21)
Yeah, they need it there, too.
[SABRINA SMAI] (29:22 - 29:22)
Oh, yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (29:22 - 29:23)
There's no land.
[SABRINA SMAI] (29:23 - 29:26)
Yeah. And we're surrounded by water. And so like.
[Stephen Husted] (29:26 - 29:26)
And you're surrounded by water.
[SABRINA SMAI] (29:27 - 29:27)
It's just.
[Stephen Husted] (29:27 - 29:37)
Yeah. When I went out to Seattle, how I ended up on that journey going out there was because I had a bunch of people that I met at BiggerPockets on the podcast. And so I got intrigued.
Yeah.
[SABRINA SMAI] (29:37 - 29:40)
They're all from Seattle, huh? We dominate that conference.
[Stephen Husted] (29:41 - 29:42)
Yeah, that's true.
[SABRINA SMAI] (29:42 - 29:43)
You're absolutely right on that.
[Stephen Husted] (29:44 - 31:21)
That's totally true. Not only that, then I was on listening to a podcast and I was hearing Ann Curry out in Tacoma. And so she was the first one I had in my podcast.
I'm like, I think I'm going to go out to Seattle. No, this sounds like the market. And I go, it's closer to my house.
And then when I got out there and started cruising the neighborhoods, it was very similar light bulb moment to go investing in Kansas City because when I got on the ground in Kansas City, there was a lot of rundown houses, but you could see the development and you could just see what was going on. So you're like, OK, there's jobs. There's a path of progress
Tennessee was very similar for short term rentals in the Smoky Mountains. You know, I got on the ground there and I went, oh, this place is amazing. This is a no brainer for short term rentals.
You can do this and there's not going to get regulations. But Seattle was the same way. And you can tell that with the alleyways and the way the houses sit on the lots, like you could have a so a 5000 square foot lot here in San Jose.
It's usually sitting right in the middle of a lot. You don't got no backyard. And if you're going to put an ADU in that backyard, somebody is going through the side gate.
Where are they parking? There's no privacy. Now, it's great for maybe extended family and things like that.
You could use that totally fine, but it's not the same vibe whatsoever in Seattle. They're not apples to apples. I've said this to thatch too.
Dude, this ain't the same out here. But yeah, you guys got the hills and the water. There's no land.
[SABRINA SMAI] (31:22 - 31:38)
Yeah, no, there is no land. But there are I mean, I would say it is still hard to find properties that are placed on the right good side of the law on one side of the lot. So you could build.
So you're just going to have to search. But there are deals out there. And I'm sure San Jose, there's plenty of properties that are like that.
It just might be harder to find. It is.
[Stephen Husted] (31:38 - 31:45)
Yeah. Yeah. What do you what are your goals to try to end this year?
Are you trying to find more properties? Are you good for what you have in front of you or?
[SABRINA SMAI] (31:47 - 32:27)
No, actually, so because I just closed like I'm pretty much on the floorplex. Yeah, I'm well, I'm pretty much done three projects and I'm starting a project where I'm partnering with somebody to do a 15 unit development deal in Seattle. So but I'm not that active in that project, but I'm in buying mode right now.
So I would like to get at least one more project, one more development project by the end of the year. And I would like to also I'm actually looking at a eight unit development deal in Arizona that I'm looking into. So I'm kind of chill right now.
Just I've played with three large projects right now.
[Stephen Husted] (32:27 - 32:57)
So I love that you said I'm kind of chill, right? What are you talking about? There ain't nothing chill about this.
What are you talking about? We're terrible. This is horrible.
Sorry, guys, but this is this is what happens. So in Arizona, it feels like there's a lot of land. How are you approaching what you're going to do out there compared to what's going on in Seattle?
[SABRINA SMAI] (32:58 - 34:13)
Yeah. So, well, Arizona came out with saying that they were short 250,000 homes. So there is a shortage of homes in Arizona.
And with all the jobs that are moving here, like a lot of hardware engineers are moving here because of all the semiconductor plants that are starting their businesses and a lot of entrepreneurs. And so there's not enough affordable housing in these areas. Sure, there's a ton of land.
But the problem is everybody still wants to live in downtown Phoenix. Everybody still wants to live in downtown Chandler. So these areas are becoming unaffordable.
And the city is actually recognizing that there is an affordability and density issue in certain areas that they're allowing 80s to be built. They're not allowing them to be sold separately quite yet. But I do.
And there's nothing in the books. It's not nothing pending right now in Arizona. But I do believe that it will happen where they're going to want more developers to jump onto this bandwagon and more homeowners to build in their backyards that they're going to allow for 80s to be sold separately and have parcel numbers and separate tax IDs, but not quite yet.
So the goal is to kind of, yeah, prepare myself for when this happens. Land bank. And then when the time comes, start building AUs and additional units on these single family zone lots.
[Stephen Husted] (34:14 - 34:24)
You're getting prepared for it. Yep. You'll be ready.
I'll be ready. Have the infrastructure. Yeah, smart
What about out in Seattle? Like, what are some of the deals that you've done that have been pretty creative?
[SABRINA SMAI] (34:25 - 35:36)
So one of the deals. So my easiest ADU deal is I bought a house from a flipper where it was already a beautifully renovated single family home. And the flipper already converted the garage into this beautiful studio one bedroom.
So it's like everybody thought I was an idiot for buying it for market value. But I'm like in my head, I'm like, OK, sure. There's no actual value add when it comes to renovations or cosmetic or anything like that.
But the value add that I see that a lot of people don't see is that you can actually do a condo conversion, split the lot, get two separate tax IDs, two separate parcel numbers so that you can attach title to each of these structures. Just by doing that, it appraised for $350,000 more in about six weeks just by getting a condo survey, getting an attorney and recording it with the county. All of a sudden, boom, just created an unlocked value that people did not even see.
So it's just being able to recognize and spot these opportunities and have the lenses to be able to see that type of value add, not just traditional value add that a lot of flippers see. That's where all the magic and all the money is being made. So that was the easiest.
Like I made more money from that deal than I did in my tech job for the entire year.
[Stephen Husted] (35:37 - 35:55)
Off that one in like six weeks, six weeks, essentially. So let's talk about so you lot split, right? So you got two separate parcel ID numbers now.
Mm hmm. How much of value are you thinking the main single family takes after the fact? So this one was touched to the garage, correct?
So it wasn't attached.
[SABRINA SMAI] (35:55 - 35:57)
It was a detached. It was detached garage.
[Stephen Husted] (35:57 - 36:03)
OK. Yeah. All right.
So essentially, are you putting in a rule of thumb of you're going to take a 10% hit on the main house?
[SABRINA SMAI] (36:04 - 36:36)
So that I think is old news. So I would say two, three years ago, I would say 10% is a pretty good number to say that the front house loses about 10% of its value by taking away the backyard. I'm noticing now it's taking a larger hit.
Like I'm talking 15, 20% that that's why in the Seattle area, just because you can build an ADU doesn't mean you should, because the front house is being impacted a lot more than it did a couple of years ago.
[Stephen Husted] (36:36 - 36:39)
So why is that? Why is that? Is that the market shift?
[SABRINA SMAI] (36:39 - 37:05)
I think it's the market shift. But then also, like people are starting to realize that, like, how much of an impact the backyard has on the value of the front house. And like things are just now there's more comps to be like, oh, like before we didn't really have much comps for removing backyards.
Like it's just aim with the backyard. But yeah, I think the market shift. And also now we're getting comps for slowly
Things are kind of reducing in value for it not having that amenity.
[Stephen Husted] (37:06 - 37:37)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And it's got an HOA now, too.
Yes. You know, I mean, like you just added another layer to it. This is a topic.
It's funny. This is something that I remember when we were buying our short term rental cabin out in the Smokies. And this was like twenty, twenty two, twenty, twenty three.
They're in that range. And one of my biggest questions to this group that are very big out there was I don't care how much this cabin was grossing during covid. What was it grossing in 2019?
[SABRINA SMAI] (37:37 - 37:39)
That's right. I don't care.
[Stephen Husted] (37:39 - 38:47)
I keep hearing these numbers and it's so inflated. But everybody was traveling and I just kept going. I want to know what was going on.
And of course, I learned that one real quick. Once that market shifted, here was the true value. And what you bring up about these lot splits is definitely in my mind because we got five houses and eleven, you know, middle housing developments going in.
Yes, we've juiced the value, so to speak, on these houses because we turned them in basement units. But then again, if you were going to sell that main house as a duplex, unpermitted duplex, whatever you want to call it, you now have a very small buyer pool. I'm picturing one thing and I'm curious to understand what you think.
Maybe it makes sense for the tech worker health hacker. That's like, yeah, I'm going to buy this house and I'm going to put tenants in the bottom and they're going to pay thirty five hundred and I'm going to have mine up upstairs. Maybe that's going to work.
Maybe that's going to be something in every location is different, too. That's another thing. I mean, you're building these little communities.
What's your take on all that?
[SABRINA SMAI] (38:48 - 38:50)
You're asking about having a duplex versus.
[Stephen Husted] (38:51 - 38:58)
Yeah, I mean, do you think the buyer pool shrinks now that you lot split and basically there's no backyard or maybe you put a basement unit in?
[SABRINA SMAI] (38:59 - 40:17)
Actually, I think the buyer pool, I think it just depends on the location. There's certain areas like, for example, Capitol Hill in the Seattle area. There's a lot of tech people that want to live there.
But houses like the average home prices, if I were to guess, is one point six million dollars. And so if you were to buy an ADU in somebody's backyard for seven hundred fifty thousand dollars and it's brand new construction, sure, it has a 10 foot side yard, like 10 foot by 50 or like 30. But at the end of the day, I get to be where all my favorite restaurants are, where all my friends lived.
And sure, it's in an HOA, right? But you're technically not sharing anything other than if there's a common element, you're not really sharing anything other than maybe a fence. Hopefully you have an ADU where it's set up, where you have separate private access, like a lot of people, especially in the tech world, like they love these ADUs.
And those are usually the end buyers in the Seattle area is tech people in really that want to be in really good locations that don't care about a yard. They just have a little dog. They want to be near a dog park.
But the families want to be want their amenities, right? Because they got kids running around and they want that big, large yard. But I don't know if the buyer pool, I think it depends on the avatar.
Those are the types of people that kind of target. Those are the end buyers for the ADUs.
[Stephen Husted] (40:18 - 42:01)
So we're doing a lot of these middle housing scenarios now that are kind of popping up. And my biggest kind of struggle, ARV with price per square foot, things are coming up is, yeah, now I can build a 1700 square foot middle housing scenario. Does like, OK, my bill costs go up.
Am I going to get the ARV out of it? That's another scenario. Three, if I do build bigger and let's say I do have a problem with selling it, whatever, because the market is shifting, shifting a little bit out there.
I noticed that I can't do a DSCR loan. That's not going to happen. So those things, you know, like now I've kind of put this like threshold of like, OK, let's go to 1400 square feet.
Let's get a little bigger than the typical 1000, 1200, whatever. Let's just add a little bit more. We're building three story units now.
We have one over by Green Lake. It's in an alley, but it's in a cool alley because it's next to a really cool commercial brick building. And so the architect drafted up a DADU.
And I'm like, you know what? I want a three story. I want the two car garage side by side at the first floor.
I want the entrance going up. And then the second floor, I want the kitchen, half bath living. And then I want a huge deck covered deck with bifolds.
And then the third floor. Put three bedrooms, two full bathrooms, and it looks cool and it's got a huge deck, huge deck. So there's your outdoor space from that property.
You can walk to Green Lake.
[SABRINA SMAI] (42:01 - 42:02)
That's awesome.
[Stephen Husted] (42:02 - 42:03)
It's three minutes away.
[SABRINA SMAI] (42:03 - 42:04)
Oh, that's so cool.
[Stephen Husted] (42:05 - 42:29)
I'm thinking that's cool. And I'm going to be in it for about five to build. What do you think the ARV would be?
Nine. I didn't even know when we got it. And by the way, the main house was a little 2-1 and we turned the upper into a 3-2 and then the basement into a 3-2.
Actually, all our properties, we turned 2-1's into 3-2-3-2's.
[SABRINA SMAI] (42:29 - 42:31)
Like into a duplex. That's what I did. Yeah.
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (42:31 - 42:47)
OK, that's awesome. But you're losing, you know, that that one on 75th. There's no backyards for either one of them.
They're going to have walkways and fenced off, maybe a little outdoor space enough for, like you said, a dog to do the thing. But they can walk to Green Lake.
[SABRINA SMAI] (42:47 - 43:00)
That's right. Yeah, they can walk. So because it's a good location, that's the key is like you have to be in great locations where they can get their yard.
Yeah. Through walking around the lake or that's why location matters for sure. Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (43:01 - 43:21)
I'd even know there was a downtown like the downtown on 75th. You go up. There's like a little mini downtown.
I'd even know that because I didn't get on the map when we got this. I got the deal really quick and I had to make a decision. But I was like looking at the ARVs on things
I'm like, why is this area so it's so pricey right here? And I go, I know there's Green Lake, but there's something else going on when I found the downtown. I'm like, all right.
[SABRINA SMAI] (43:21 - 43:22)
Yeah, that makes sense.
[Stephen Husted] (43:23 - 43:35)
We got the amenities. Well, what do you think about middle housing? Like, you know, just because you can go bigger in more square footage, does it really make sense?
I mean, I guess every project is going to have its, you know, its things, right?
[SABRINA SMAI] (43:36 - 44:59)
Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. Well, first of all, I would say just because you can.
Well, I know that's not related to your question, but just because you can build an ADU doesn't mean you should build an ADU. And a lot of people are just like, oh, my God, it's on a corner lot. It's on an alley.
I'm going to build an ADU is just an automatic thing. But the problem is because we're losing so much more value than we did before on the front house, and it might not be worth the holding costs of an extra six to eight months for the ADU to be built. And then the amount of money that you're making is just not worth that time rather than just maximizing the front house and just doing a full renovation and having it appraised at a pretty decent amount.
But you're in and out velocity of money just moving on. So I just feel like this is kind of like this ADU fallacy or like people like just because you could doesn't mean you should build an ADU. Just run your numbers, figure out, like, are you in a location where, you know, this play works?
Right. Because we're losing a lot more value in the front house, like you've got to really be conservative with your numbers. And sometimes people are building even ADUs in these A, A minus neighborhoods where it's just probably better for you to just spend a little bit more money in that front house and just get a higher appraisal on that rather than building an ADU and really stripping the value of the front house or like the potential of that front house.
And so I wanted to answer that question in that way instead.
[Stephen Husted] (45:00 - 45:28)
No, and I think that's it's really good. And I think it's an important topic to bring up because we're kind of in it, too. And then I'll see people on Facebook and I hear this conversation a lot.
Oh, yeah. You get the inexperienced investor who overpays for the main house, gets it tied up on the ADU, gets the carrying costs and then takes, you know, a $200,000 hit on the main house. Or I've been hearing people already.
Yeah. Taking a huge loss on the main house or off the bat just to bet on the ADU play.
[SABRINA SMAI] (45:29 - 46:27)
Yeah. And that is scary for me, because if you have to build to make the numbers work, that's a huge problem. That is a huge problem because the development should like the ADU player, the development play should be a cherry on top of the sundae.
Like the numbers should just work from just burying the front house or flipping the front house. The numbers should just work. Have I bought a property where I was at a loss and I would have to leave money in the deal for the backhouse?
Yes. It was like about $75,000. But that made my land cost in the back $75,000.
But the numbers that I was getting for the back was like 50 percent margin. So I'm like, I can pay 75,000 for that land that I lost in the front house. So it just you have to kind of have a cap of where, you know, you're losing money in the front house.
Is it $100,000 that you're just like, OK, this is the max that I would pay for the land in the back? What is that threshold? But if you have to build an ADU in the back to make your numbers work for this entire project, I'm sorry.
But like you're overpaying for that deal.
[Stephen Husted] (46:28 - 47:07)
Let's get some good insights right there. I'm glad we jumped back on. And do you ever go through this, too, because you're talking all these things, right, you got these properties and developments, you got your mentoring, you're doing this right.
Have you ever thought about the end goal? Like where I mean, I understand that people like we look out and then work backwards, but it is like a puzzle. Like we don't know where we're going to be at the end of all of this.
Like how we're going to deal with the properties, how we're going to successfully exit all those things. Does that ever run in your head?
[SABRINA SMAI] (47:07 - 47:10)
Yeah. No, totally. Because it's like when's enough enough.
Right.
[Stephen Husted] (47:11 - 47:12)
And yeah, yeah
[SABRINA SMAI] (47:12 - 49:04)
I'm not the type of person that wants a hundred doors. I do have like a financial monthly passive goal that I want to reach. I think I have two levels.
I would like fifty thousand dollars passively per month. And I feel like I can live pretty comfortably. But my ultimate goal is like, OK, I'm doing all this.
I enjoy real estate, but nobody like has a deep, deep passion for real estate. It's usually like a vehicle to allow you to do things that you really enjoy. And for me, I love teaching.
That's just like when I was in tech, I used to teach for free like the things that I was doing because I just love teaching. And I believe that's kind of like my purpose. And so kind of my end goal is like I want to impact people and I want to make the world a better place.
And I do believe through education is the way to do it. And so I feel like that's why I'm at the point where I feel good about the projects that I've done, the credibility that I've built, the reputation and the kind of wealth that I've built, that I'm kind of. So I just started my coaching program, but that's kind of what I want to do to impact people and also create.
There's also these projects, these tiny home projects in Seattle for like affordable housing, where a lot of it's run by the government. And I want to build or raise money to build these types of homes to kind of get more people like into more homes. And I feel like my obsession for creating more affordable homes kind of came from the fact that I did not grow up in a steady home and like we were always moving and there was like six people in a two bedroom apartment.
And it's just I just never felt safe in a home. And so like I feel like that's kind of where my obsession for creating affordable housing for people that can live in a steady home that they can truly feel safe in and can afford it. And so that's kind of a mission.
And that's kind of my end goal. It's not necessarily a financial goal, but the financial goal is to allow me that space and safety to be able to do things that I can I can impact the world and serve my purpose.
[Stephen Husted] (49:05 - 49:54)
I love that. I think it's great. And I think that's important.
I think the mentoring part is such a good feeling. I don't know. I don't know about you.
I don't know how I got into it. Mine, I pretty much learned how to do things. I mean, I've been in real estate since 2008 as a realtor.
And I think I kind of took on being an investor just from content, watching content and learning from people and just kind of learning as I go. But then I had, you know, people started seeing me online and calling me and texting me and want to have coffee, want to invest. And can I shadow you?
What can I do to get into this? And I said, oh, you can't. That's too hard.
There's too many moving parts and there's too many dynamics to do that. You would have to be glued to my hip. And quite frankly, if you're glued to my hip to hear what I go through, you probably won't be an investor.
[SABRINA SMAI] (49:55 - 50:01)
That is so true. Oh, my God. It sounds so cool and fun until you actually.
[Stephen Husted] (50:01 - 50:07)
Yeah, no. Yeah, yeah. So some of them turned into partnerships.
Same network.
[SABRINA SMAI] (50:07 - 50:08)
Yeah, that is so.
[Stephen Husted] (50:09 - 52:58)
Yeah. So and most of them work in tech. And they came to me like, hey, I work a nine to five.
I got RSUs. I'm ready to go. Let's do this.
And so that worked out good. But then it got to the point where I'm like, OK, I can't have 30 partnerships. It's a lot of moving parts.
And so I have like my little core group and we're very tight. So then I pivoted and I started helping people and I would go on retainer with them for six months. And I would help them pick a market, get financing, put a team together and just pour whatever I can into them and teach them and give me as much information they possibly can from basically all the lessons I've learned.
And now I get to watch them go through there, like the one I just told you about, the five thousand dollar scenario. She called crying. I don't know if this is for me.
I don't know if this is for me. These two aren't renting. I got the other two renting.
I'm losing money. I'd rather just give the money to you and you go and do a project in Seattle. And I'm like, Karen.
You need to take control here. Like you need to take control. You're running a business.
Let's do this. You call this person, talk to this person. And I want you to report back to me in a day.
And she's like, OK, like she's going to cry. And she's cried many times. And that's OK.
But then she's like, look. And then I called her back like a week later. And I'm like, hey, I'm sorry that I'm direct with you and hard on you.
But guess what? People are going to be hard on you. So you need it.
And she's like, you make me feel good every time we get off the phone. You give me clarity and you give me like, OK, I feel like I still have you behind me and I'm going to go get it done. OK, cool.
And all that. I think real estate and investing for me, it's just one part of my life, but it does teach me a lot of lessons in life itself. Like what?
Life's not perfect. There's problems. We have ups and downs.
You know, I mean, it's not all roses. And I think that sometimes on social media, it can get painted that way, that we're all doing all these great projects and doing all this stuff. And there's you know, here's how I'm going to make 400,000 on this one project.
Well, there could be some that it's like, here's how I lost 100 grand or here's one this how I had to like let go of my architect. Or there is a lot of issues, too. We make money and we lose money, too.
They go hand in hand. But such is life. So I think it teaches us a lot of things, but I can say that teaching just selfless teaching is the best.
You can't put you can't put a price on it. You get paid to do it. But it's the best feeling.
You walk away just you know what I mean?
[SABRINA SMAI] (52:58 - 52:59)
I pass it. You know what I mean?
[Stephen Husted] (52:59 - 53:20)
You just it feels good. It feels good. And that's almost it was very similar to, you know, I remember when I first put out content, made a video on on a property that I bought.
And oh, that's so cool. Thank you so much. You got me inspired.
I want to do it, too. I'm like, I see the tax and I got like emotional. I'm like, wow, that feels good.
You know, I hope they do. Yeah.
[SABRINA SMAI] (53:20 - 53:20)
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (53:21 - 53:31)
You know what I mean? So that's awesome. Mm hmm.
It's a cool thing, right? Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah.
What do you do for hobbies and anything?
[SABRINA SMAI] (53:32 - 53:47)
Tennis is a big thing for me. Tennis and drinking matcha is kind of like what people think of me as the tennis player that drinks matcha, that does real estate. That's literally the only thing that people think that I do.
Yeah. But that's pretty much encompasses my life, honestly.
[Stephen Husted] (53:47 - 53:49)
Yeah. Do you say tennis? Tennis?
[SABRINA SMAI] (53:49 - 53:50)
Yeah. Playing tennis. Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (53:51 - 53:52)
No, no pickleball.
[SABRINA SMAI] (53:53 - 54:06)
Gosh, no, no, I'm kidding. That's going to piss off so many people. I know when my when my knees hurt and elbows hurt, then I would go to pickleball for now
I love pickleball. Don't get me wrong. But tennis is just my thing.
Yeah.
[Stephen Husted] (54:06 - 54:07)
Yeah. How long you been into tennis?
[SABRINA SMAI] (54:08 - 54:10)
Probably like four or five years.
[Stephen Husted] (54:10 - 54:11)
Cool. How'd you pick it up?
[SABRINA SMAI] (54:12 - 55:30)
Funny enough, I had a friend that was so like, if you know anyone who's into tennis, it's like a cult. They're like obsessed. Right.
So I had a friend that couldn't stop talking about tennis. And I got so mad. And like my friend just kept on trying to get me to play tennis.
I'm like, no, I don't want to. And I don't want to watch tennis. And it was just like anyways, they just the more I hung out with my friend, the more I'm just like, shut up about tennis.
And they did just try to convince me to play tennis. And I was just like, no, it just kind of pushed me away. And then all of a sudden I played tennis with this person like once or twice.
And I was just like, huh, this is kind of cool. And I just loved everything surrounding tennis, the cool outfits and just the vibe around it. And I was like, you know what, maybe I should just do lessons.
And then so then I found a little center near my house that did lessons. And it and tennis is one of those sports that the better that you get, the more you like the sport. Like at the beginning, you kind of hate it because you suck and you just can't hit the ball.
And then the better that you get, the more addicting you really get to the sport. So it's been kind of this addiction and I love it. And then I had gone to like the Indian Wells and ushered for it.
I actually worked for Indian Wells for like, I think it was like two years ago. And my plan is to do it like every year. But it's just so fun.
I love everything that surrounds tennis and the sport itself.
[Stephen Husted] (55:30 - 55:58)
Yeah, that's really cool. I like that. Yeah.
My dad, I think my dad played tennis when he was in high school, but I grew up watching it. Yeah. No, I like it.
Yeah, I like it. I think it's cool. Well, if I had to watch something on TV, I would pick tennis over golf.
Oh, OK. Even though I know a lot of people are super into golf, but I don't get it. It's not me.
That's OK. Do you travel a little?
[SABRINA SMAI] (55:59 - 56:56)
Yeah, I just got back from Colombia, actually, a couple of days ago. Most of my travel over the last two, three years has been all like work related. And so my trip to Colombia was technically the first trip that was like a fun like vacation that I had in three years.
And I was very disappointed in myself, actually. I was like, what? Like I waited three years to like, and I was just on hustle mode for a couple of years straight.
And I was just like, what am I doing all this for? And then then I took an impromptu trip. I think my flight was like three times the price as it should have been because I just booked it two days before.
But I just needed to just remember what it's like to just travel and do something for myself. So, yeah, that I just need to. But now I need to be intentional.
So my my goal this year is to travel more like for fun, not for good. Bigger pockets and limitless and all these conferences. No, that is not because you're just in the same stuff.
Would you get back from a conference?
[Stephen Husted] (56:56 - 57:02)
And now you're like, OK, I got all these new goals and I got to do this. And then you're just like stacked on more things, actually.
[SABRINA SMAI] (57:03 - 57:14)
And you're doing deals at these conferences like you're making transactions happen, people bringing you deals. And it's just not vacation, even though you're in Vegas and you're in L.A. Well, it's not fun.
[Stephen Husted] (57:15 - 57:18)
Yeah. I just did a men's retreat last weekend. Yeah.
[SABRINA SMAI] (57:18 - 57:23)
Oh, was it like GoBundance or like one of these groups or?
[Stephen Husted] (57:24 - 1:00:36)
No, no, no, no, no. It's crazy. So I sold this lady's house back in April and she's friends with my mom.
They go to the same church. She's 90 and she moved into an assisted living. And she was following me on Facebook.
And when it came time to sell, she called me and I said, you want to interview me? And she's like, look, I already follow you on Facebook. I know everything about you.
You're my guy. I'm like, all right. But we talked a lot.
And she was just like like I would I call her my third mom. Just a cool lady. She's 90.
And she just, you know, you can tell her, tell it like it is. And you get her wisdom. And we closed on the property.
And she's like, called me up and said, hey, I'd like to sponsor you to go to a men's retreat. I'm like, I'm like, OK, so nice. And I'm like, well, kind of men's retreat.
We don't hear my she does men's retreat. And I'm thinking like, oh, is this like a businessman retreat? You don't get to take off, do you?
I'm like, this sounds cool. I'm ready to do this. She's like, it's in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
I'm like, all right, cool. And then I'm like, is this is it a religious? Yeah, like what's the catch?
Yeah. And she's like. Yeah, yeah, let's do the church.
Yeah, kind of. Yeah. She's like, I think it'd be good for you.
I'm like, all right. So I signed, you know, I was like, sure. And about a week before going, my wife and my daughter going.
You realize this is this is a religious retreat. This is a big deal. I'm like, OK, I had no clue what I was going to myself into.
I showed up there Thursday evening. No phone. Wow.
No phone. And it was deep. It was deep.
It was good. It was really good. It was a good reset.
It was in the mounds. Not having my phone, not being on social media for almost a week. I just posted on stories.
I wish stories go longer so you can actually tell a story. I don't even know why they call it stories. It's not stories, but it's like who the hell who have tell stories in a minute?
Give me a break. Yeah. But anyways, I just posted like, hey, I'm back.
I went to retreat. I can't even tell you everything that went on. That was amazing.
But getting off social media, it really made me realize that that there's some negatives to it, for sure. Big time, as much as I try to block it out, you know, and stay in lanes of positivity and learning and things like that. There's just another 10 to 20 percent of it that's.
Kind of just toxic in my eyes. But the retreat gave me a little bit more of like inside on. And funny enough, when she picked me up after the retreat, she said, hey, part of the reason why I thought you should go is you have a platform.
She's like, I know you're a realtor and you're an investor, but you also layer in your background and mindset and inspiration. She's like, I feel like you can lean into that more. So I and I understood it once I got there.
Was it religious? Yes. But I think it had anything, everything to it was positive.
So I would do it again. I would do it again.
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:00:37 - 1:00:43)
Yeah. So it felt nice to kind of poured into yourself a little bit and didn't even realize that was this way.
[Stephen Husted] (1:00:43 - 1:01:31)
Yes. It is so unexpected, too, which I showed up there. You know, I'm getting there.
I'm going. Mm hmm. All right.
Let's lock in here, folks, and take it in, too. And I think there could have been an opportunity there. I don't think it's a place to go if you're trying to like get through something, some traumatic issues in the beginning, whether it's addiction or depression, or I don't think it's the right place for that in the beginning.
But I think it is to improve your your well-being and how you can improve others, too, which was another big after I got back is what I called Karen, my mentee student, who's my friend. I told her that, hey, I'm sorry, I'm kind of sometimes really harsh with you. No, it's only for your benefit.
And she's like, oh, no, no, no, no. Like you. I want you to stay just like that because that's what I need.
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:01:31 - 1:01:41)
Yes. OK, we need mentors like you to just be a straight shooter. Don't sugarcoat it.
Just tell me how I can be better.
[Stephen Husted] (1:01:42 - 1:01:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, on that note, I'm really happy that we got to connect and get you on the podcast.
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:01:49 - 1:01:54)
Yeah. Thanks for having me. And it's nice meeting you.
The first time we're meeting, which is so I know.
[Stephen Husted] (1:01:54 - 1:02:19)
I know it's crazy. And that's that's what I love about doing a podcast is, you know, I'll find people online, but then I get an hour of intimate talk to learn about them and then share that message out there. It's just really cool.
And we have another connection. I know I can reach out to you somewhere else if there's something I needed out there and vice versa. So I think it's a it's really I think it's really cool.
Yeah. No, I appreciate you jumping on.
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:02:19 - 1:02:21)
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
[Stephen Husted] (1:02:22 - 1:02:24)
Yeah. Where can the audience find you?
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:02:25 - 1:02:36)
Instagram is probably the best way for people to reach out. I share a lot of my ideals and some of the a lot of educational content. But yes, Sabrina dots my SMAI on Instagram.
[Stephen Husted] (1:02:36 - 1:02:48)
And that's pretty much where you can find me. Fantastic. We'll put that in the show notes, too.
So, yes, once again, thank you for joining today. I really appreciate it. Hope you have a good rest of your week.
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:02:49 - 1:02:50)
Thank you. You too.
[Stephen Husted] (1:02:50 - 1:02:51)
Yeah. Yeah. We'll be talking soon.
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:02:52 - 1:02:53)
Oh, yeah. Appreciate you.
[Stephen Husted] (1:02:54 - 1:02:55)
All right. Take care.
[SABRINA SMAI] (1:02:55 - 1:02:55)
Thanks.
[Stephen Husted] (1:02:56 - 1:03:25)
Bye bye.
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